Duh yeah that's every 4 years but they only play 16 games. Just thought of NHL and NBA.

I grew up watching games in Philly, then moved to Baltimore, where I of course watched AL games, then back to Philly, then off to Cleveland for a bunch of Indians games, then back to Philly. The lack or presence of the DH never really affected my enjoyment of the game, and I'm not really sure how it does for others, though I can see why the Players Association would want to keep the DH. Prefer the original since that's what I grew up with, and for a general preference that ballplayers be ballplayers, and be able to do everything with a a level of competence, though I've resigned myself to the fact that rules should be standard across the leagues, especially since they've Selig-ized out of existence anyway, and that pro-DH, for the reason above is where it will end up. Pitchers get on base between 1-2 times in each 8 appearances, regulars between 2-3, and the pitchers are often replaced by pinch hitters in the non-DH games, so honestly, I don't see what the big fuss was about originally anyway as in real time the effect on the game was minimal.

As I say, I'm ready to move on . I understand from Whiteyfan that catchers soon won't have to be able to catch anyway, so why should pitchers have to hit or hitters field? I look forward to 40 man rosters and open substitutions for all positions.

Another 15 to 30 paying jobs for sluggers.

jamiethekiller wrote:Another 15 to 30 paying jobs for sluggers.

Yup, mostly older guys who make a lot of money.

thephan wrote:Hitting pitcher is so rare the position is almost an automatic out. The arguments about the beauty and the strategy are a thing for dinosaurs. There's never been a t-shirt that says chicks dig the strategy.

Do pitchers play the field or don’t they that is the question

jamiethekiller wrote:Another 15 to 30 paying jobs for sluggers.

What is the impact on pitchers? A roster spot could go to a DH rather than an arm. Additionally there is one more tough out in the batting order to be faced. Years ago I read an evaluation which correlated the DH with higher ERAs and WHIPs for pitchers. It also indicated that it possibly had an effect on the longevity for pitchers since it caused them to need to throw more pitches per outing. What helps one side is a negative for the other.

WhiteyFan wrote:Guys, I found a really awesome article that I know you're going to want to read.

Out of the Frame: The Effect of an Electronic Strike Zone on Catching

Thought I'd at least hear some rebuttal from you guys? Nothing?

stevelxa476 wrote:So by deduction, you are saying that pitch framing is currently the most important quality of a good catcher....?

Stripes wrote:So it doesn't matter if he can throw out base stealers, or keep any pitch in the dirt from rolling to the backstop, or call a good game, or anything to do with running a game? Got it!

Bucky wrote:(you're not)

Monkeyboy wrote:Man, our pitching last year must have been atrocious with all that great stuff from Realmuto keeping their heads above water.

swishnicholson wrote:Because you're taking a marginal, though very useful, skill and elevating it to a basic skill for catchers. Saying it's so doesn't make it so.

phatj wrote:According to whom?

CFP wrote:Where did anyone say that robot umpires were immediately becoming part of baseball and human umpires were being removed as of this spring training? Calm down man, Jesus Christ

stevelxa476 wrote:Yeah the Gary Sanchez's of the world are sure struggling to find work. And why do you continually act as if pitch framing is the be all end all of catching? It is like saying base stealing is what defines a good hitting centerfielder.

Ramon Gris wrote:Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but wouldn't catcher valuations revert to what they were before pitch framing was tracked?

The main reason there's a large differential in pitch framing runs is because it's not an ability that has been heavily selected for. There isn't a large differential in those other catcher skills because those are the skills that front offices have been focusing on when choosing catchers: hitting, throwing, blocking and game calling. The same way every SP nowadays throws 90+ mph, because that's what front offices value. So there isn't a large differential in pitch speed amongst pitchers. Whereas in the 80s there was a lot more disparity because velocity wasn't seen as important.

And you are saying the catching position is going to drastically change, except catching skills already look a lot like what they would if there was no pitch framing... some catchers are really good at pitch framing and a lot are really bad at it, because it's not heavily factored into who gets drafted or signed.

Another example is pitcher hitting: The best hitting pitchers are way better than the worst ones. Because no one really cares about pitcher hitting when choosing pitchers. And it's like you are arguing that who becomes a pitcher is going to drastically change when they implement the DH in the NL, when really it's not going to make much difference in who is drafted/signed/promoted etc.

WhiteyFan wrote:

WhiteyFan wrote:Guys, I found a really awesome article that I know you're going to want to read.

Out of the Frame: The Effect of an Electronic Strike Zone on Catching

Thought I'd at least hear some rebuttal from you guys? Nothing?

stevelxa476 wrote:So by deduction, you are saying that pitch framing is currently the most important quality of a good catcher....?

Stripes wrote:So it doesn't matter if he can throw out base stealers, or keep any pitch in the dirt from rolling to the backstop, or call a good game, or anything to do with running a game? Got it!

Bucky wrote:(you're not)

Monkeyboy wrote:Man, our pitching last year must have been atrocious with all that great stuff from Realmuto keeping their heads above water.

swishnicholson wrote:Because you're taking a marginal, though very useful, skill and elevating it to a basic skill for catchers. Saying it's so doesn't make it so.

phatj wrote:According to whom?

CFP wrote:Where did anyone say that robot umpires were immediately becoming part of baseball and human umpires were being removed as of this spring training? Calm down man, Jesus Christ

stevelxa476 wrote:Yeah the Gary Sanchez's of the world are sure struggling to find work. And why do you continually act as if pitch framing is the be all end all of catching? It is like saying base stealing is what defines a good hitting centerfielder.

Ramon Gris wrote:Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but wouldn't catcher valuations revert to what they were before pitch framing was tracked?

rolex wrote:

jamiethekiller wrote:Another 15 to 30 paying jobs for sluggers.

What is the impact on pitchers? A roster spot could go to a DH rather than an arm. Additionally there is one more tough out in the batting order to be faced. Years ago I read an evaluation which correlated the DH with higher ERAs and WHIPs for pitchers. It also indicated that it possibly had an effect on the longevity for pitchers since it caused them to need to throw more pitches per outing. What helps one side is a negative for the other.

I’m not sure why teams would raise their budgets. Will probably just result in going cheap elsewhere.

heyeaglefn wrote:Why don't people like interleague play, only because of the DH? It is weird baseball is the only sport where you don't play every team every year, but I can't imagine never playing an AL team outside of the WS. Doesn't seem like a smart move for viewership or fans if you play 162 games against the same 14 teams.

Because it made baseball unique. The AL was more interesting on one level to me before 1997 precisely because the Phillies never played AL teams. Having the AL around was the closest thing in real life you could get (if you were a baseball fan) to having an alternate or mirror universe. The DH-in-the-AL-exclusively only accentuated that feel. People would talk about the difference between AL and NL style of play, and AL and NL strike zones, and those differences were real and meant something. I imagine that must have been twice as fun when the Athletics were in town too (albeit no DH then), though obviously I post-date that by quite a bit.

It also made spring training, the All-Star Game, and the World Series all more fundamentally interesting, especially, as was always the case when I was a kid, if the Phillies had no shot in hell of participating except with a token player in the former, and not at all in the latter.

All those things lost a little of their luster so the Phillies can play an away series in Cleveland every sixth year. Whoopdee fucking do.

The best argument was always, "But now fans from every city get to see every team," but three things:

1. Modern media makes it so you can see any team you want at any time.
2. If you simply must see somebody live, most baseball teams are close enough to some other team that you could generally make a trip out of your home market without too much trouble and see an AL game or an NL game if that is what you wanted to do, and your normal thing was the other league. I myself first saw a non-Phillies game in Baltimore, and it felt doubly special not because of any one player in it, but because I was watching American League baseball. I realize this is easier in the northeast than pretty much any place else, but then Atlantans should have thought of that before stealing the Braves from Milwaukee, so fuck them.
3. I think baseball, like hockey, is mostly a parochial sport; that is, people's interest is generally more local than national (i.e., some people like basketball players or football players and will follow whatever team(s) those players happen to be on, but this is less so of baseball and hockey). I for one do not care who the Phillies are playing, in one sense, when I go to see the Phillies. I am there to see them, and see them win. I couldn't care less if Mike Trout or Joe Schlabotnik is on the opposing team. This might seem like an argument for interleague play - after all, what do I care then? - but, as I say, what was fun about consuming baseball at home was the mystery and mystique of "that other league."

It was unique to baseball, and anything unique to baseball that sets it apart in this day and age helps to differentiate its brand in a crowded entertainment market place and is good, I say. But obviously I don't matter, and watching pitchers get progressively worse at hitting as baseball, as all sports, has become increasingly specialized from an early age sucks big time, and so, FUCK IT, let it be so.

I liked the novelty of it when it first started, especially when they started alternating what divisions each team played. But now that every teams has visited every city, I would be fine with going back to the traditional separation.

Plus the natural rivals series can make things a little unbalanced. The Nats get to play the O's every year, but the Mets have to play the Yankees every year.

Football doesn't play every team every year

Stripes wrote:

Agreed. It was mainly posted to help people (like yourself) who had trouble understanding the original argument.

http://signstealingscandal.com/

Analysis of Astros trashcan banging

This is an awful idea

I'm really curious to see the rest of the teams. Will the Royals have a rack of BBQ ribs?

I'm really curious to see the rest of the teams. Will the Royals have a rack of BBQ ribs?

stevelxa476 wrote:I liked the novelty of it when it first started, especially when they started alternating what divisions each team played. But now that every teams has visited every city, I would be fine with going back to the traditional separation.

Plus the natural rivals series can make things a little unbalanced. The Nats get to play the O's every year, but the Mets have to play the Yankees every year.

I would be for the NFL system where you play every team on a rotation if that is possible. So Mets and Yankees only play once every 4 or 5 years, however it would work out.

SwingOnThis wrote:I'm really curious to see the rest of the teams. Will the Royals have a rack of BBQ ribs?

They only did it for 10 cities, of which KC did not make the cut. There is also an NBA version to go with it.