cartersDad26 wrote:THIS is the kind of shit we need to be doing, love it. Get on board - Go Phil!

And take Gus with you!

Another downside of this (beyond working at the big-league level to control th strike zone) is if Kapler is serious. Cesar should be the superb. Kingery is a gold-glove caliber 2B. Get him playing there, not all over the field.

Monkeyboy wrote:

kruker wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:It really seems like they have supreme confidence in the guy. Good for him. They must think he'll be worth a lot more or the risk makes no sense.

I think it's a bit of an unnecessary risk, but the dollars are low enough that I think it's fine. I'm excited to watch him mash.

What's the risk? Really? Like getting 24m of value out of him in 6 seasons is pretty darn high. The upside of the 3 super team friendly option years and showing players that you're an organization willing to do this far outweigh the dollar risk. 24m for one season is an albatross. Over 6 it's a rounding error. I contend there's almost no risk here.

The risk is that he could have a career ending injury tomorrow. Or the next day. Or the next day. All the days between now and when they really needed to do something like this. He could also not end up being as good as these early days suggest. It does happen.

It only makes sense if they want some cost certainty and they feel REALLY good about him adjusting to big league pitching.

Overall, I like it because the downside is small and the optics are great. But there is a risk.

I don't see losing 24M for this team as a risk. If it wouldn't have any impact on us to basically put that as dead weight on the team and luxury cap right now...which ok, lost space, but prorated over time it's basically nothing...then is it really a risk? Functionally no downside here.

phillychuck wrote:Another downside of this (beyond working at the big-league level to control th strike zone) is if Kapler is serious. Cesar should be the superb. Kingery is a gold-glove caliber 2B. Get him playing there, not all over the field.

that will probably happen eventually. there is literally no negative to this deal

phillychuck wrote:Another downside of this (beyond working at the big-league level to control th strike zone) is if Kapler is serious. Cesar should be the superb. Kingery is a gold-glove caliber 2B. Get him playing there, not all over the field.

This is something that irks me. You don't switch one of your top prospect's position in order to play Cesar Hernandez everyday. They did the same thing to Rhys Hoskins last season and JP Crawford.

I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if Kingery ends up playing almost everyday at other positions but if he only plays 2-3 times a week, then that's bullshit.

if kingery is better at playing the other positions than cesar, then it makes more sense to move him around. the hoskins move last year gave them a level of comfort to pursue santana.

Then I think we need to define what a risk is. I think it's a risk in that it is unnecessary at this time and if something goes wrong, we have to pay the tab. It's not going to cripple the franchise or anything (which is why I'm fine with it). I spent much of the offseason saying we should spend money over the next 2-3 years because we have so much to spare and it won't hurt the franchise going forward. I still believe that's true and Kingery's contract is fine for that reason (and for a few others, as well). But it's a risk, even if it's one we're fine with them taking.

To reiterate, I'm happy about the extension. It seems like a smart move overall.

Then I think we need to define what a risk is. I think it's a risk in that it is unnecessary at this time and if something goes wrong, we have to pay the tab. It's not going to cripple the franchise or anything (which is why I'm fine with it). I spent much of the offseason saying we should spend money over the next 2-3 years because we have so much to spare and it won't hurt the franchise going forward. I still believe that's true and Kingery's contract is fine for that reason (and for a few others, as well). But it's a risk, even if it's one we're fine with them taking.

To reiterate, I'm happy about the extension. It seems like a smart move overall.

Cesar was 4th among all mlb 2b last year in uzr/150.

Monkeyboy wrote:Then I think we need to define what a risk is. I think it's a risk in that it is unnecessary at this time and if something goes wrong, we have to pay the tab. It's not going to cripple the franchise or anything (which is why I'm fine with it). I spent much of the offseason saying we should spend money over the next 2-3 years because we have so much to spare and it won't hurt the franchise going forward. I still believe that's true and Kingery's contract is fine for that reason (and for a few others, as well). But it's a risk, even if it's one we're fine with them taking.

To reiterate, I'm happy about the extension. It seems like a smart move overall.

Yea, but it's such a small risk that it's kind of trivial. The team could find that amount of money in their couch cushions and the AAV is so low that it's crazy to think that this would hamper any future moves.

I feel like worrying about the risks involved with this deal is like worrying about the risk of hitting your gag reflex while brushing your teeth. It's possible; but you're still going to brush your teeth without thinking twice because the potential "downside" isn't a big deal.

Monkeyboy wrote:Then I think we need to define what a risk is. I think it's a risk in that it is unnecessary at this time and if something goes wrong, we have to pay the tab. It's not going to cripple the franchise or anything (which is why I'm fine with it). I spent much of the offseason saying we should spend money over the next 2-3 years because we have so much to spare and it won't hurt the franchise going forward. I still believe that's true and Kingery's contract is fine for that reason (and for a few others, as well). But it's a risk, even if it's one we're fine with them taking.

To reiterate, I'm happy about the extension. It seems like a smart move overall.

Yea, but it's such a small risk that it's kind of trivial. The team could find that amount of money in their couch cushions and the AAV is so low that it's crazy to think that this would hamper any future moves.

I feel like worrying about the risks involved with this deal is like worrying about the risk of hitting your gag reflex while brushing your teeth. It's possible; but you're still going to brush your teeth without thinking twice because the potential "downside" isn't a big deal.

cartersDad26 wrote:Any chance we lock up Hoskins too?

It's probably up to him. Generally, I think it's an overall loss for players to do these deals when they are really good

Doll Is Mine wrote:

Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick
Evan Longoria had appeared in six major-league games when he agreed to a six-year, $17.5 million deal with the #Rays in 2008

I got Longoria in my main fantasy draft that year for cheap. This was back when everybody in the known baseball world didn't always
understand why teams sent guys like this down for some "seasoning" in the minors. Lots of peeps that year that thought he might be in the minors until the ASB. Just had this year's draft yesterday. Got Kingery for 6 (out of 260). Came home to this thread. Stoked!

I really like the deal in contrast to the Acuna situation. We're confident about this guy as part of the future. Rather than cynically dick around with his service time, we bought out those years, plus some. It's a good look. It looks good to agents and players, gets us out in front of a looming collective bargaining issue, and probably saves us a lot of money in the future. It'll be hard to deal with if he sucks, but the risk/reward makes a lot of sense.

The risk is so tiny though. That $4m he makes in 2021 and $6m in 2022 will be a non-factor when we'll have guys on the roster like Bryce Harper or Manny Machado and others who will be making $30m plus.

I wish they can do the same with Hoskins and Nola.

I’m sure they’re trying to do so.

this is a smart move for both sides

iladelph53 wrote:

cartersDad26 wrote:Any chance we lock up Hoskins too?

It's probably up to him. Generally, I think it's an overall loss for players to do these deals when they are really good

Hoskins should call Darin Ruf and ask if he thinks he should take that kind of deal

One of very few things Darin couldn’t get his hands on

Little bit different