this full week fallout it's been interesting to see the fallout and the blame applied to other groups. I'd say as a whole no group has really shown any culpability ranging from anti-Trump conservatives (including on this board), Clinton Dems, 3rd party advocates, etc. No one really wants to accept their role in this, of course, except for the pro-Trumpies who are quite thrilled. I like to think accepting blame is a responsible, forward thinking thing to do, but if you don't except any blame ever, you can be prez. so know knows.

meanwhile Breitbart -- and therefore the future White House-- is running this headline: "DONALD TRUMP WON 7.5 MILLION POPULAR VOTE LANDSLIDE IN HEARTLAND"

In the what land?

Clinton crushes Trump in evil liberals bastions.

It's just such an odd narrative. I think it would be helpful to figure out how to get the non racists of that group to vote Dem but people live in cities. Just because those places don't vote red doesn't make them less American or whatever. I'd argue they are more American. All races and ages and backgrounds. I don't know. That's American to me. Cities suck at bending those things together a lot of the times, but at least different people exist in those places.

Doll Is Mine wrote:In the what land?

Crazy town. I can only guess at the type of gerrymandering to get those numbers.

drsmooth wrote:yea, so all the hair-tearing about the big strategic shifts Ds "need" to make is bullshit.

1,001 agonizingly minor technical shifts, any combination of which might have pushed the EV counts the "right" way, & none of which it means shit to identify today, and HRC is prez.

70% of success in life is showing up. What you have to make sure, what you have to obsess about, is the showing up part.

I said in my post that these weren't easy calls. I was talking in retrospect, something to think about going forward rather than casting blame.

For example, all of this stuff people keep saying about how close the election is and could have gone either way obscures how all of the Democrats were talking about this being a landslide and freaking out on Nate Silver for saying Trump had a shot. People in these threads were mocking Trump for going to Michigan, meanwhile Clinton had one of her last big events in Ohio which got called at like 9 PM. I don't understand how the idea that the Democrats systematically misread the Midwest and PA can even be up for debate.

tom cotton floated for SecDef. god help us all

the Democratic party completely failed. while certainly not as culpable as Republicans, we also bought into a cult of personality. we put forth a candidate who was hugely unpopular, like popularity doesn't matter. a candidate who was under investigation by the FBI, like that can just be waved away. we expected charges of sexual misconduct against Trump to stick when Bill Clinton was on stage every night, a guy so mired in scandal his own VP didn't want him campaigning for him in 2000. we aggressively ignored red-handed evidence that the DNC was corrupt and weighted toward Clinton, like that wouldn't bother anyone not inclined toward her. and then she waged a terrible campaign ignoring any kind economic message in favor of identity politics and negative messaging, even entirely ignoring crucial states. everyone crowed for pragmatism throughout the primary and then assumed the whole country would vote the way Dems think they ought to have, like everyone reads the same college-level articles about privilege and sexual politics. I'm embarrassed that I woke up confident last Tuesday

Bird Fishing @HaastsEagleApp
@realDonaldTrump Don't change or you will lose the Christians who don't agree with this backlash of Gay Rights...Man and Women..

Man and women?

Cedric Taylor @TheUrbanEntity
@realDonaldTrump YOU ARE GETTING IT WRONG WITH GAY MARRIAGE. NEEDS TO BE OVERTURNED! DON'T SCREW IT UP WITH ABORTION. SAVE OUR BABIES!

Elena Maria Vidal @emvidal
@realDonaldTrump Please overturn the gay "marriage" ruling! It is NOT settled law! We love you and know you can do it!

each r congressperson who's emitted noises about repealing ACA is more ignorant than the one before. By Jan 20, they'll be about on par with amoebae.

Barrasso - a doctor! he says - is the latest idiot

Youseff wrote:this full week fallout it's been interesting to see the fallout and the blame applied to other groups. I'd say as a whole no group has really shown any culpability ranging from anti-Trump conservatives (including on this board), Clinton Dems, 3rd party advocates, etc. No one really wants to accept their role in this, of course, except for the pro-Trumpies who are quite thrilled. I like to think accepting blame is a responsible, forward thinking thing to do, but if you don't except any blame ever, you can be prez. so know knows.

my moment of introspection is that I have no trust in the order of my perception anymore. I'm questioning everything, baby!!

Houshphandzadeh wrote:the Democratic party completely failed. while certainly not as culpable as Republicans, we also bought into a cult of personality. we put forth a candidate who was hugely unpopular, like popularity doesn't matter. a candidate who was under investigation by the FBI, like that can just be waved away. we expected charges of sexual misconduct against Trump to stick when Bill Clinton was on stage every night, a guy so mired in scandal his own VP didn't want him campaigning for him in 2000. we aggressively ignored red-handed evidence that the DNC was corrupt and weighted toward Clinton, like that wouldn't bother anyone not inclined toward her. and then she waged a terrible campaign ignoring any kind economic message in favor of identity politics and negative messaging, even entirely ignoring crucial states. everyone crowed for pragmatism throughout the primary and then assumed the whole country would vote the way Dems think they ought to have, like everyone reads the same college-level articles about privilege and sexual politics. I'm embarrassed that I woke up confident last Tuesday

yeah i agree with this post

The NSA chief told the WSJ of the Wikileaks dumps: 'this was a conscious effort by a nation state to attempt to achieve a specific effect."

MoBettle wrote:

drsmooth wrote: I don't understand how the idea that the Democrats systematically misread the Midwest and PA can even be up for debate.

count the vote margins in those places. Do you need a comprehensive overhaul of everything you're doing, or just more time spent in those places with the same shit?

I don't get my transmission replaced every time my car needs an oil change

pacino wrote:The NSA chief told the WSJ of the Wikileaks dumps: 'this was a conscious effort by a nation state to attempt to achieve a specific effect."

MAGA

Houshphandzadeh wrote:we put forth a candidate who was hugely unpopular, like popularity doesn't matter.

The "winner", by a count of votes, was significantly less popular. Probably just a detail, don't let it ruffle your narrative

spend a few more years preaching that it's impossible for Trump to win

drsmooth wrote:

Houshphandzadeh wrote:we put forth a candidate who was hugely unpopular, like popularity doesn't matter.

The "winner", by a count of votes, was significantly less popular. Probably just a detail, don't let it ruffle your narrative

Those aren't the rules tbf

drsmooth wrote:

Houshphandzadeh wrote:we put forth a candidate who was hugely unpopular, like popularity doesn't matter.

The "winner", by a count of votes, was significantly less popular. Probably just a detail, don't let it ruffle your narrative

i just think the main takeaway for democrats can't be "those racists put him in." a lot of those same "racists" also voted for obama twice so i dunno

democrats have to confront and address the fact that their turnout was way down from 2012 and 2008. just the fact that hillary's team simply didn't see this coming should be enough for them to want to change the targeting strategy

td11 wrote:

drsmooth wrote:

Houshphandzadeh wrote:we put forth a candidate who was hugely unpopular, like popularity doesn't matter.

The "winner", by a count of votes, was significantly less popular. Probably just a detail, don't let it ruffle your narrative

i just think the main takeaway for democrats can't be "those racists put him in." a lot of those same "racists" also voted for obama twice so i dunno

democrats have to confront and address the fact that their turnout was way down from 2012 and 2008. just the fact that hillary's team simply didn't see this coming should be enough for them to want to change the targeting strategy

It's certainly a combo of things, including racism (white supremacy in the insidious, more low-key way) and actual economic anxiety. The democrats need to push the latter to the hilt. They have actual answers and a spirited debate on what can broaden the recovery more generally. It's having an ability craft the message that they need to work on.

I wonder if it's better to have Ellison as minority leader as opposed to DNC chair? Pelosi should step aside for the good of Dems and the country and for the sake of turning a new page. The former is more of a message maker and he really knows his stuff as the co-chair of the progressive caucus. Let the boring DNC stuff to someone willing to implement that message on the ground full-time.