Werthless wrote:
Now that I have 3 kids, I spend more time thinking about early childhood development, values, and how to raise kids with the morality, grit, independence, and intellect to thrive in the world today. To piggy back on your post, the inequality and breakdown of the society values is happening long before someone gets a job. By the time kids get to high school, there are clear differences that will carry through for the rest of their lives. It's not a new challenge, how to produce successful children, but it's an exciting one if we can figure out how to raise kids that enables them to succeed.
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Monkeyboy wrote:

JUburton wrote:Clinton and Sanders will hold a rally together in Portsmouth, NH tomorrow. I would assume that this is the endorsement.

Too little too late. He's doomed her campaign.

howardfan6 wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:

JUburton wrote:Clinton and Sanders will hold a rally together in Portsmouth, NH tomorrow. I would assume that this is the endorsement.

Too little too late. He's doomed her campaign.

The polls don't reflect your opinion. There is no way in hell that Trump will ultimately turn any blue states red.

ACLU-North Carolina @ACLU_NC
BREAKING: Gov. @PatMcCroryNC signs bill giving police broad authority to keep body camera footage from public

Werthless wrote:

SK790 wrote:

Werthless wrote:

drsmooth wrote:

Werthless wrote:I like how people opposing a doubling of the minimum wage are asked to make am argument against it.

Again, fixating on the dollar figure used as the concept's marketing slogan is insipid thinking on the part of advocates as well as opponents. Please stop doing it. That will make you appear intelligent, rather than merely truculent

But that's why it's bad, because it's so large. It's not indexing to inflation, or other moderate changes. It's doubling it. So the linked studies that show that "the immediate effect on employment is very small" should be placed in that context. A $15/hr minimum wage would have minimal effect on restaurant employment in high COL cities, but places like Reading would make a bad situation worse.

Very interesting that the supporters of Clinton's position want me to ignore the specifics of the position.

So another trust me it'll be bad post. Cool.

We should move it to $30/hr so everyone can afford a nice lifestyle.

Werthless wrote:Very interesting that the supporters of Clinton's position want me to ignore the specifics of the position.

Raising the minimum wage and strengthening overtime rules. Hillary believes we are long overdue in raising the minimum wage. She has supported raising the federal minimum wage to $12, and believes that we should go further than the federal minimum through state and local efforts, and workers organizing and bargaining for higher wages, such as the Fight for 15 and recent efforts in Los Angeles and New York to raise their minimum wage to $15. She also supports the Obama administration’s expansion of overtime rules to millions more workers.

JFLNYC wrote:I think we have a consensus among us here at BSG -- maybe not unanimous, but a consensus -- that raising the minimum wage would be an overall positive thing. The amount, effects and implimitation of such a raise, not so much.

For example, the more conservative among us may think raising the minimum wage will cost jobs and even bankrupt small businesses. We may think that a one-size-fits-all increase at the Federal level is too blunt an object and, therefore, favor a more localized approach (an approach, btw, to which, by the way, I am sympathetic). We may think it needs to be phased in over a longer period or that it should or should not have a COLA attached to it.

But as doc has rightly (in my view) pointed out, getting too hung up on a simplistic slogan like "The Fight for 15" or insisting that citing Econ 101 ends the debate misses the much, much bigger picture and does nothing to advance the discussion.

Inequality of all types is tearing this country apart and economic inequality is a big part of the problem. Might raising the minimum wage cost small business owners and shareholders of larger companies some of their profits? Yes, it might but, first of all, if that redistribution (and let's be honest, that's what it is) might not be such a bad thing. And, secondly, it might end up being positive for all concerned.

Our economy is, in large part I believe, stagnant because too much wealth is concentrated at the top and not enough is being recirculated throughout the economy. In an economy such as ours which is 70% consumer-based, the best way to get the economy moving is to put more money in the hands of more consumers. That's the economic argument.

But there's a much larger argument to be made.

No country or civilization has ever long withstood the kind of systemic inequality we're seeing today in America. Being citizens of our country is not a simple geographic fact. Being a member of any sustainable society brings with it some kind of social contact and the more legs upon which that contract stands the stronger it is. And, I would argue, one of the key legs upon which any country's social contract stands is some measure of concern for the common good. America is and hopefully always will be known as a place where great individual achievement is rewarded greatly. But a relatively small group of individuals achieving great things for great rewards surrounded by a huge group of people who are not thriving and, worse yet, have no hope of ever surviving, makes for both a weaker social contract and a weaker country.

At the moment our politics in America (and to a large part throughout the world) seek to kick out from underneath as many of our social contract underpinnings as possible. The more we seek to differentiate our fellow members of society based upon religion, race, sexual orientation and other immutable characteristics, the more we weaken our social contract and the weaker our definition is of what binds us together as a society.

But as immutable as characteristics such as race may be, there are matters which are within our power to change and improve and one of those is economic inequality. More and more we see our society self-separating based upon economic status and that just can't be good for our social contract.

I want to be clear that I'm not arguing for equality of outcome There will always be such inequality and some measure of that inequality based on virtues like hard work, perseverance, etc., is a good thing. But in addition to equality of opportunity (which is a much larger issue) no one can seriously argue that the mere raising of the minimum wage is part of some socialist argument for equality of outcomes. Rather, raising the minimum wage is (in addition to it's purely economic aspects) an indication that we value each man and woman's individual work a bit more relative to society as a whole and also, therefore, something which strengthens our community bonds and makes us a stronger society.

As for me, I believe the economic argument for raising the minimum wage in a consumer-based economy stands well enough on its own. But when we add in the other societal good it will do the issue is a no-brainer. So rather than quibbling about form it behooves us all to focus on the details and get 'er done.

jerseyhoya wrote:Posts that studies show the $15 minimum wage has been wildly successful

Posts studies that don't talk about the $15 minimum wage

Posts about people not bringing substance

The BSG politics thread - where amazing happens

SK790 wrote:http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/chrreports/2/

results of this study confirm previous findings, namely, that the relatively modest mandated increases in employees’ regular and tipped minimum wages in the past twenty years have not had large or reliable effects on the number of restaurant establishments or restaurant industry employment levels, although those increases have raised restaurant industry wages overall. Even when restaurants have raised prices in response to wage increases, those price increases do not appear to have decreased demand or profitability enough to sizably or reliably decrease either the number of restaurant establishments or the number of their employees. Although minimum wage increases almost certainly necessitate changes in restaurant prices or operations, those changes do not appear to dramatically affect overall demand or industry size. Furthermore, there is strong evidence that increases in the minimum wage reduce turnover, and good reason to believe that it may increase employee productivity as well.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/ ... 1-is-wrong

For example, Econ 101 theory tells us that minimum wage policies should have a harmful impact on employment... That’s theory. Reality, it turns out, is very different. In the last two decades, empirical economists have looked at a large number of minimum wage hikes, and concluded that in most cases, the immediate effect on employment is very small.

Another example is welfare. Econ 101 theory tells us that welfare gives people an incentive not to work. If you subsidize leisure, simple theory says you will get more of it.

But recent empirical studies have shown that such effects are usually very small.

It's almost like the world is more complicated than Econ 101...

Most of you probably think that the $15 minimum wage in Seattle is an insane departure from rational policy that puts our economy at great risk. But in Seattle, our current minimum wage of $9.32 is already nearly 30 percent higher than the federal minimum wage. And has it ruined our economy yet? Well, trickle-downers, look at the data here: The two cities in the nation with the highest rate of job growth by small businesses are San Francisco and Seattle. Guess which cities have the highest minimum wage? San Francisco and Seattle. The fastest-growing big city in America? Seattle. Fifteen dollars isn’t a risky untried policy for us. It’s doubling down on the strategy that’s already allowing our city to kick your city’s ass.

jerseyhoya wrote:Obviously none of those are studies showing the $15 minimum wage has been wildly successful. They discuss modest increases in the minimum wage. But hey, the discourse of "fuck you" is at a very high level. Gotta tip the cap there.

Werthless wrote:Around and around we go. I'm bowing out, now that I've made at least 1 thoughtful post today.