Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby Doll Is Mine » Sat Jul 09, 2016 13:29:02

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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby JFLNYC » Sat Jul 09, 2016 13:42:34

Raising wages reduces costly employee turnover and increases productivity. When the minimum wage goes up, employers can enjoy these benefits of paying higher wages without being placed at a competitive disadvantage, since all companies in their field are required to do the same. Raising wages also puts money in the hands of consumers, boosting demand for goods and services.


For these reasons, nearly 1,000 business owners and executives, including Costco CEO Jim Singeal, U.S. Women’s Chamber of Commerce CEO Margot Dorfman, Addus Health Care CEO Mark Heaney, Credo Mobile President Michael Kieschnick, ABC Home CEO Paulette Cole, and small business owners from all 50 states, signed a Business for a Fair Minimum Wage statement supporting the last increase in the federal minimum wage. As their statement explained, “[h]igher wages benefit business by increasing consumer purchasing power, reducing costly employee turnover, raising productivity, and improving product quality, customer satisfaction and company reputation.”


The Business Case for Raising the Minimum Wage
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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby CalvinBall » Sat Jul 09, 2016 13:48:29

jerseyhoya wrote:
SK790 wrote:
Polar Bear Phan wrote:
SK790 wrote:it's so dumb the studies that have been done in places where $15/hr has already been put in place have shown it to be wildly successful. i'm sure you have plenty of talking points about how prices are going to rise and employment will go down(which directly contradicts the studies).


Really? You have any citations for this in academic journals?

[For reference, this is in contrast to what PolitiFact found only a couple of months ago.]

From the super liberals at Goldman Sachs:

http://cepr.net/blogs/cepr-blog/2014-jo ... nimum-wage

From where I sit in Shillistan, I can't help but note this says absofuckinglutely nothing about a $15 minimum wage.


Still waiting for your alternative.

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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Jul 09, 2016 14:09:00

CalvinBall wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
SK790 wrote:
Polar Bear Phan wrote:
SK790 wrote:it's so dumb the studies that have been done in places where $15/hr has already been put in place have shown it to be wildly successful. i'm sure you have plenty of talking points about how prices are going to rise and employment will go down(which directly contradicts the studies).


Really? You have any citations for this in academic journals?

[For reference, this is in contrast to what PolitiFact found only a couple of months ago.]

From the super liberals at Goldman Sachs:

http://cepr.net/blogs/cepr-blog/2014-jo ... nimum-wage

From where I sit in Shillistan, I can't help but note this says absofuckinglutely nothing about a $15 minimum wage.


Still waiting for your alternative.

I don't necessarily think opposing a bad idea requires an alternative. It would be worse than the status quo. It would be bad and destructive and is dumb.

If the GOP was nominating a normal person, I would hope they would make the case for why this would decrease employment among lower skilled workers as well as damage small businesses. They could suggest other paths such as reforming and expanding the earned income tax credit being a much less disruptive way to help the working poor. But calling out bad policy as bad policy is worthwhile all on its own.

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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby CalvinBall » Sat Jul 09, 2016 14:16:02

It's not very constructive though. It's easy to lob verbal rocks and stand agaisnt something. It's harder to stand for something. There are a handful of posts that explain why people think it would be beneficial. You're argument, at least initially, was "lol you're dumb."

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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Jul 09, 2016 14:19:12

I will refrain from making any posts in the politics thread of this baseball message board that are below white paper standard in the future.

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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby CalvinBall » Sat Jul 09, 2016 14:21:19

Ok

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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby drsmooth » Sat Jul 09, 2016 14:39:17

jerseyhoya wrote:Calling out bad policy as bad policy is worthwhile all on its own.


You haven't "called out bad policy". You've fixated on a figure. Dumb is fixating on a figure. Smart is engaging in the policy conversation. Like clarifying why policy based on earned income tax credit may be better. I know you can do it.
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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Sat Jul 09, 2016 15:04:28

Small businesses are only harmed if the price isn't passed on to the consumer. Considering the vast majority of small businesses are in the service industry, it's not as if Walmart and Amazon will he undercutting their higher rates.
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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby CalvinBall » Sat Jul 09, 2016 15:04:37

It would be a first

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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Sat Jul 09, 2016 15:08:59

NJ is going to phase in $15 minimum over 5 years starting in 17 so it will be interesting to see the effect. Im skeptical the out of business signs will start popping up b
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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby drsmooth » Sat Jul 09, 2016 18:16:38



This seems like a good bookend for your Plutocrats article, JFL (is it still NYC? thought you'd fled for FL?): When The Robots Rise. I'm wary of anything even remotely associated with the antiChrist that is Kissinger, but this thing at least stirs some usefully-stirred pots
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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby azrider » Sat Jul 09, 2016 18:23:38

Take health care and workers comp out of the hands of businesses, raise the minimum wage to 12.50 dollars an hour, everyone wins. Fund healthcare through a combination of income/consumption taxes with credits and caps.

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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby JFLNYC » Sat Jul 09, 2016 18:30:17

drsmooth wrote:


This seems like a good bookend for your Plutocrats article, JFL (is it still NYC? thought you'd fled for FL?): When The Robots Rise. I'm wary of anything even remotely associated with the antiChrist that is Kissinger, but this thing at least stirs some usefully-stirred pots


Thanks for the tip. Yes I'm a Floridian now. Guess I should ask the Voxes to change my username but I'm too lazy.
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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby Slowhand » Sat Jul 09, 2016 19:47:56

drsmooth wrote:
Bucky wrote:
one of my best friends is a cobbler and he does quite quite quite well for himself


I'll take all the rhubarb he can bake up


Try the Squat Cobbler!
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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby drsmooth » Sat Jul 09, 2016 20:27:11

azrider wrote:Take health care and workers comp out of the hands of businesses, raise the minimum wage to 12.50 dollars an hour, everyone wins. Fund healthcare through a combination of income/consumption taxes with credits and caps.


AZ you may have the makings of a financing approach here, but stuff called health care is 1/6 of US GDP. Spreading $3+ trillion over 350 million people leaves you at $8,600 or so. (CMS computed the per capita figure at something over $9,500 in 2015; I'd go with their numbers, to be safe).

Tough to stretch your income consumption taxes formulation to cover a substantial portion of that
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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby jerseyhoya » Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:46:39

Trump reportedly considering a pro choice Dem ex general for VP. Kinda hope he goes that route just to see the spin from the pro Trump "the GOP is insufficiently conservative" voices on talk radio and Fox justifying it.

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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby The Crimson Cyclone » Sun Jul 10, 2016 13:29:06

jerseyhoya wrote:Trump reportedly considering a pro choice Dem ex general for VP. Kinda hope he goes that route just to see the spin from the pro Trump "the GOP is insufficiently conservative" voices on talk radio and Fox justifying it.



Wouldn't he lose a huge chunk of the evangelicals? (They probably wouldn't vote)
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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby jerseyhoya » Sun Jul 10, 2016 15:23:02

If they're still voting for Trump at this point...

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Re: Sit-in spin: Getting dizzy with politics

Postby JFLNYC » Sun Jul 10, 2016 15:28:00

Yeah, if you're a Trump convert he could pick Bernie Sanders and you'd think it was genius.
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