pacino wrote:Rubio vs a voter who is gay in NH

Gross.

Just a front runner for the Republican party interrupting a family dinner to chastise the gay couple's lifestyle. How can anyone want to vote for these assholes?

that gay man knew exactly what he was doing, mr rubio was heard mumbling the rest of the evening.

pacino wrote:Rubio vs a voter who is gay in NH

LMAO at the Lindsay Graham comments.

That's priceless.

pacino wrote:Rubio repeated the Obama knows what he's doing line 3 more times on This Week on ABC, but he also did this:

Following a Saturday night’s Republican Presidential Debate on ABC News, host George Stephanopoulos noted during a Sunday interview that Rubio had been hammered for his belief that abortion was wrong even in cases of rape or incest.

“Abortion to me is not a political issue,” Rubio insisted. “It’s a human rights issue. And so, if [Jeb Bush] wants to make it a political issue, that’s his right. For me, it’s not.”

“I do require an exception for life of the mother because I’m pro-life,” he continued. “Number two, as I’ve said, if they pass a law in Congress that has exceptions, I’ll sign it. Because I want to save lives.”

“What do you say to that mom when you look her in the eye?” the ABC host wondered.

“It’s a terrible situation,” Rubio replied. “I mean, a crisis pregnancy, especially as a result of something as horrifying as that, I’m not telling you it’s easy. I’m not here saying it’s an easy choice. It’s a horrifying thing that you’ve just described.”

“I get it,” he added. “I really do. And that’s why this issue is so difficult. But I believe a human being, an unborn child has a right to live, irrespective of the circumstances of which they were conceived. And I know that the majority of Americans don’t agree with me on that.”

“And that’s why any law that passed will almost certainly have exceptions. And I’ll sign it.”

sucky situation, bro

what did he do here?

i do think it is an incredibly complicated and nuanced issue. i really don't see him being all that wrong here.

While we're piling on, Rubio's National Security Advisor is an art historian: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/ted-cr ... 1757921204

CalvinBall wrote:

pacino wrote:Rubio repeated the Obama knows what he's doing line 3 more times on This Week on ABC, but he also did this:

Following a Saturday night’s Republican Presidential Debate on ABC News, host George Stephanopoulos noted during a Sunday interview that Rubio had been hammered for his belief that abortion was wrong even in cases of rape or incest.

“Abortion to me is not a political issue,” Rubio insisted. “It’s a human rights issue. And so, if [Jeb Bush] wants to make it a political issue, that’s his right. For me, it’s not.”

“I do require an exception for life of the mother because I’m pro-life,” he continued. “Number two, as I’ve said, if they pass a law in Congress that has exceptions, I’ll sign it. Because I want to save lives.”

“What do you say to that mom when you look her in the eye?” the ABC host wondered.

“It’s a terrible situation,” Rubio replied. “I mean, a crisis pregnancy, especially as a result of something as horrifying as that, I’m not telling you it’s easy. I’m not here saying it’s an easy choice. It’s a horrifying thing that you’ve just described.”

“I get it,” he added. “I really do. And that’s why this issue is so difficult. But I believe a human being, an unborn child has a right to live, irrespective of the circumstances of which they were conceived. And I know that the majority of Americans don’t agree with me on that.”

“And that’s why any law that passed will almost certainly have exceptions. And I’ll sign it.”

sucky situation, bro

what did he do here?

i do think it is an incredibly complicated and nuanced issue. i really don't see him being all that wrong here.

Even though I disagree with him (Rubio) totally, it does seem close to an honest and realistic response. We haven't seen too many of those this campaign.

pacino wrote:Rubio repeated the Obama knows what he's doing line 3 more times on This Week on ABC, but he also did this:

Following a Saturday night’s Republican Presidential Debate on ABC News, host George Stephanopoulos noted during a Sunday interview that Rubio had been hammered for his belief that abortion was wrong even in cases of rape or incest.

“Abortion to me is not a political issue,” Rubio insisted. “It’s a human rights issue. And so, if [Jeb Bush] wants to make it a political issue, that’s his right. For me, it’s not.”

“I do require an exception for life of the mother because I’m pro-life,” he continued. “Number two, as I’ve said, if they pass a law in Congress that has exceptions, I’ll sign it. Because I want to save lives.”

“What do you say to that mom when you look her in the eye?” the ABC host wondered.

“It’s a terrible situation,” Rubio replied. “I mean, a crisis pregnancy, especially as a result of something as horrifying as that, I’m not telling you it’s easy. I’m not here saying it’s an easy choice. It’s a horrifying thing that you’ve just described.”

“I get it,” he added. “I really do. And that’s why this issue is so difficult. But I believe a human being, an unborn child has a right to live, irrespective of the circumstances of which they were conceived. And I know that the majority of Americans don’t agree with me on that.”

“And that’s why any law that passed will almost certainly have exceptions. And I’ll sign it.”

sucky situation, bro

As much as I hate to admit it, I don't have any problem with what he said. He acknowledged that the situation is horrible and he seems to admit that it's a very difficult situation for the mother (which it is). He obviously doesn't believe in abortion, but that's his opinion. If he genuinely believes it is killing another human, and it seems like he does, then I can understand his position. I don't agree with it, but this seems very different from what we got from Republicans 4 years ago when a woman's emotions and difficulties were basically dismissed and trivialized.

yeah i thought his answer was pretty well thought out. and he recognizes it is not easy. i mean what is life, ya know? to me it it isnt as black and white as some make it and scoff at those who disagree.

idk!

Monkeyboy wrote:

pacino wrote:Rubio repeated the Obama knows what he's doing line 3 more times on This Week on ABC, but he also did this:

Following a Saturday night’s Republican Presidential Debate on ABC News, host George Stephanopoulos noted during a Sunday interview that Rubio had been hammered for his belief that abortion was wrong even in cases of rape or incest.

“Abortion to me is not a political issue,” Rubio insisted. “It’s a human rights issue. And so, if [Jeb Bush] wants to make it a political issue, that’s his right. For me, it’s not.”

“I do require an exception for life of the mother because I’m pro-life,” he continued. “Number two, as I’ve said, if they pass a law in Congress that has exceptions, I’ll sign it. Because I want to save lives.”

“What do you say to that mom when you look her in the eye?” the ABC host wondered.

“It’s a terrible situation,” Rubio replied. “I mean, a crisis pregnancy, especially as a result of something as horrifying as that, I’m not telling you it’s easy. I’m not here saying it’s an easy choice. It’s a horrifying thing that you’ve just described.”

“I get it,” he added. “I really do. And that’s why this issue is so difficult. But I believe a human being, an unborn child has a right to live, irrespective of the circumstances of which they were conceived. And I know that the majority of Americans don’t agree with me on that.”

“And that’s why any law that passed will almost certainly have exceptions. And I’ll sign it.”

sucky situation, bro

As much as I hate to admit it, I don't have any problem with what he said. He acknowledged that the situation is horrible and he seems to admit that it's a very difficult situation for the mother (which it is). He obviously doesn't believe in abortion, but that's his opinion. If he genuinely believes it is killing another human, and it seems like he does, then I can understand his position. I don't agree with it, but this seems very different from what we got from Republicans 4 years ago when a woman's emotions and difficulties were basically dismissed and trivialized.

yeah, that kind of position (removing the woman from the whole equation) is a non starter and gross. dont think that is his stance here at all.

i think pro choice people do this a lot too, but remove the baby from the equation.

SK790 wrote:While we're piling on, Rubio's National Security Advisor is an art historian: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/ted-cr ... 1757921204

Maybe he can find a way to stop ISIS from destroying all the artifacts.

CalvinBall wrote:

pacino wrote:Rubio repeated the Obama knows what he's doing line 3 more times on This Week on ABC, but he also did this:

Following a Saturday night’s Republican Presidential Debate on ABC News, host George Stephanopoulos noted during a Sunday interview that Rubio had been hammered for his belief that abortion was wrong even in cases of rape or incest.

“Abortion to me is not a political issue,” Rubio insisted. “It’s a human rights issue. And so, if [Jeb Bush] wants to make it a political issue, that’s his right. For me, it’s not.”

“I do require an exception for life of the mother because I’m pro-life,” he continued. “Number two, as I’ve said, if they pass a law in Congress that has exceptions, I’ll sign it. Because I want to save lives.”

“What do you say to that mom when you look her in the eye?” the ABC host wondered.

“It’s a terrible situation,” Rubio replied. “I mean, a crisis pregnancy, especially as a result of something as horrifying as that, I’m not telling you it’s easy. I’m not here saying it’s an easy choice. It’s a horrifying thing that you’ve just described.”

“I get it,” he added. “I really do. And that’s why this issue is so difficult. But I believe a human being, an unborn child has a right to live, irrespective of the circumstances of which they were conceived. And I know that the majority of Americans don’t agree with me on that.”

“And that’s why any law that passed will almost certainly have exceptions. And I’ll sign it.”

sucky situation, bro

what did he do here?

i do think it is an incredibly complicated and nuanced issue. i really don't see him being all that wrong here.

he IS taking the woman out of the equation by saying, even if it's difficult, that being raped is not a reason to abort a pregnancy, to him. that's a fairly contemptible position to me. obviously to others it's not.

personally, i think a woman can abort a pregnancy for any reason; i realize that's not a 100% held viewpoint. previously, allowing a woman the right to abort the pregnancy created by their rapist was a fairly universal viewpoint. only recently has that changed.

what do you mean housh?

oh nm

did housh do a classic 'respond to pacino and disagree and then instantly delete' move?

I said that I don't think the rape exception makes much sense except as a compromise, meaning if you think an embryo is a human with full human rights, I don't see why the rape situation really changes the calculus. but I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about abortion lately so there may be an obvious counterargument I'm missing

well, he also supports capital punishment, so we're not talking absolute morality here

Abortion is legal. What's to discuss?

Bucky wrote:well, he also supports capital punishment, so we're not talking absolute morality here

agree that there is a complete disconnect there. you can have it two different ways if the argument is life matters.

Doll Is Mine wrote:Abortion is legal. What's to discuss?

lots of things are legal that are worth discussing.

i agree it's a compromise situation. to me, i think breaking down the wall between allowing for abortion only in the cases of life of the mother, rape, and incest and allowing it in no circumstances can lead to the public consensus moving on the issue. uncoupling the all or nothing opinion that was the big compromise made by republicans and democrats years ago which allowed both sides to stay in a static state on the topic.

since 2010 it's been quite different in how republicans have gone after the issue, as on the state level republican governors and legislatures have passed more and more legislation to roll back reproductive rights and have many have tried to include these to apply to rape/incest/lom. instead of it simply being their wedge issue for voters, they've acted in was that demonstrably affect women who seek these services. every chip, such as taking away the allowance in the public consciousness to let a rape victim decide to end a pregnancy, moves the conversation and the goalposts.

this is a concerted effort to restrict abortion in all cases. that may be a heartfelt, 'non political' goal of Rubio's, but i highlighted it because i want to go the complete other way and maintain and expand reproductive rights. we hold different views and i think his are wrong. i care about this much more than the robot jokes which are fun but non-consequential.

ultimately, i hope public consensus is stirred by the re-coupling to be closer to my view than to Rubio's.