Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby Monkeyboy » Tue Feb 09, 2016 16:52:05

drsmooth wrote:rigid fundamentalists who insist with increasing vehemence that life begins at "conception" have, almost certainly unwittingly, because they are almost without exception witless, put themselves on the slipperiest of slopes.

Because as you trace back to that instant of conception, what's to stop 'originalists' from grasping that if the 'spark' comes from the engagement of one differentiated cell formation (sperm) with another (egg), one might be obliged to say that those 'spark elements' surely come from somewhere, and so that conception began even further back to the sperm or egg producer's own 'engendering', and so on back through the hall of poorly-reasoned mirrors to...places these fundamentalist 'originalists' are assuredly not prepared to go. Yet if one must pursue this obsession with a conceptual 'certainty' to its roots, one can't simply declare that you've reached the end - unless, again, you're prepared to acknowledge that you're blaspheming.


You've said this before, I think, and I disagree completely. I agree that finding the point where it begins is open to some interpretation, but it seems like the moment when a complete set of DNA is formed, the structure that will determine that life, seems like a reasonable place to say it begins. I suppose epigenetics might throw a bit of a wrench in there, but not much. The moment when a child can exist on its own or birth seem like two other reasonable places.
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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby drsmooth » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:02:54

Monkeyboy wrote:it seems like the moment when a complete set of DNA is formed, the structure that will determine that life, seems like a reasonable place to say it begins.


Any sophist would immediately ask you WHY you feel this is reasonable - especially since in your own response you identified at least one other "reasonable" time that might be considered.

These are real problems for any one who either insists that these things can be determined with certainty, or who simply demands certainty whether or not certainty can be had.
Last edited by drsmooth on Tue Feb 09, 2016 18:11:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby Youseff » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:31:31

if the Repubs can't beat Hilary they should disband the party. I've never seen such a uniquely vulnerable candidate - disliked by most of her party, scandals a plenty, despised by the opposition party, her husband's policies widely criticized by the modern left, etc.
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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby pacino » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:37:34

A lot of people like her
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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby The Dude » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:38:31

Yeah, if Bernie wasn't around there'd be a lot less revulsion towards her. Once (if) she wins the nomination the wagons will circle
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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby Doll Is Mine » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:38:50

Youseff wrote:if the Repubs can't beat Hilary they should disband the party. I've never seen such a uniquely vulnerable candidate - disliked by most of her party, scandals a plenty, despised by the opposition party, her husband's policies widely criticized by the modern left, etc.


Have you seen the Republican candidates?

Hillary will be fine in the general election. Most Democrats will vote for her and most independents will too. Oh, and there's the little matter of minorities pretty much voting for her.

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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby pacino » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:40:04

thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby pacino » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:41:06

The Dude wrote:Yeah, if Bernie wasn't around there'd be a lot less revulsion towards her. Once (if) she wins the nomination the wagons will circle

The PUMAS in 2008 that were against Obama didn't accomplish much, either.
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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby Youseff » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:42:39

The Dude wrote:Yeah, if Bernie wasn't around there'd be a lot less revulsion towards her. Once (if) she wins the nomination the wagons will circle


I don't think the controversies surrounding the Goldman Sachs stuff, Jerry Bruckheimer stuff & Sidney Blumenthal stuff is contingent upon Bernie being in the race.
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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby pacino » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:43:46

Vince Foster's gonna stick too
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby The Dude » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:44:04

Youseff wrote:
The Dude wrote:Yeah, if Bernie wasn't around there'd be a lot less revulsion towards her. Once (if) she wins the nomination the wagons will circle


I don't think the controversies surrounding the Goldman Sachs stuff, Jerry Bruckheimer stuff & Sidney Blumenthal stuff is contingent upon Bernie being in the race.


Either do i, that doesn't really matter though with the voting base that wants her over a republican
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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby Doll Is Mine » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:45:48

Youseff wrote:
The Dude wrote:Yeah, if Bernie wasn't around there'd be a lot less revulsion towards her. Once (if) she wins the nomination the wagons will circle


I don't think the controversies surrounding the Goldman Sachs stuff, Jerry Bruckheimer stuff & Sidney Blumenthal stuff is contingent upon Bernie being in the race.


The who? The what?

:lol:

Just stop. It's embarrassing.

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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby pacino » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:48:35

The Dude wrote:
Youseff wrote:
The Dude wrote:Yeah, if Bernie wasn't around there'd be a lot less revulsion towards her. Once (if) she wins the nomination the wagons will circle


I don't think the controversies surrounding the Goldman Sachs stuff, Jerry Bruckheimer stuff & Sidney Blumenthal stuff is contingent upon Bernie being in the race.


Either do i, that doesn't really matter though with the voting base that wants her over a republican

Deciding between Democrats is different than deciding once she's the nominee. She's been entirely vetted as far at that. People will either vote for her or they wont. I don't think there's much to sway that that's come out recently.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby Youseff » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:49:08

Doll Is Mine wrote:
Youseff wrote:
The Dude wrote:Yeah, if Bernie wasn't around there'd be a lot less revulsion towards her. Once (if) she wins the nomination the wagons will circle


I don't think the controversies surrounding the Goldman Sachs stuff, Jerry Bruckheimer stuff & Sidney Blumenthal stuff is contingent upon Bernie being in the race.


The who? The what?

:lol:

Just stop. It's embarrassing.


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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby Youseff » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:50:55

pacino wrote:
The Dude wrote:
Youseff wrote:
The Dude wrote:Yeah, if Bernie wasn't around there'd be a lot less revulsion towards her. Once (if) she wins the nomination the wagons will circle


I don't think the controversies surrounding the Goldman Sachs stuff, Jerry Bruckheimer stuff & Sidney Blumenthal stuff is contingent upon Bernie being in the race.


Either do i, that doesn't really matter though with the voting base that wants her over a republican

Deciding between Democrats is different than deciding once she's the nominee. She's been entirely vetted as far at that. People will either vote for her or they wont. I don't think there's much to sway that that's come out recently.


I'll hold my nose and vote but I'm fairly disgusted. I agree the GOP is putting up some monsters and duds, which is exactly my point. if there was a half way competent candidate on that side they could run away with it. this is the cream of their crop, they suck.
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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby Doll Is Mine » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:52:26

You should read David Brooks' column from today's NYT, "I Miss Barack Obama". It's a good read.

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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby pacino » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:52:54

Blame other Democrats for deciding not to run.
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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby Youseff » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:54:54

Youseff wrote:
pacino wrote:
The Dude wrote:
Youseff wrote:
The Dude wrote:Yeah, if Bernie wasn't around there'd be a lot less revulsion towards her. Once (if) she wins the nomination the wagons will circle


I don't think the controversies surrounding the Goldman Sachs stuff, Jerry Bruckheimer stuff & Sidney Blumenthal stuff is contingent upon Bernie being in the race.


Either do i, that doesn't really matter though with the voting base that wants her over a republican

Deciding between Democrats is different than deciding once she's the nominee. She's been entirely vetted as far at that. People will either vote for her or they wont. I don't think there's much to sway that that's come out recently.


I'll hold my nose and vote but I'm fairly disgusted. I agree the GOP is putting up some monsters and duds, which is exactly my point. if there was a half way competent candidate on that side they could run away with it. this is the cream of their crop, they suck.


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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby Doll Is Mine » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:58:28

pacino wrote:Blame other Democrats for deciding not to run.


I wish Elizabeth Warren decided to run.

I love Bernie Sanders but Warren does a much better explaining the issues she cares so much about. And unlike Hillary Clinton, she comes across as sincere and caring.

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Re: Primary Cholers, or the Caucusin' Chat Circle (Politics)

Postby pacino » Tue Feb 09, 2016 17:59:15

Doll Is Mine wrote:
pacino wrote:Blame other Democrats for deciding not to run.


I wish Elizabeth Warren decided to run.

I love Bernie Sanders but Warren does a much better explaining the issues she cares so much about. And unlike Hillary Clinton, she comes across as sincere and caring.

Yep

Good to have her in the Senate, though
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