Hillary has started to feel the Bern (Politics threat)

by **Brantt** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 14:05:15

JUburton wrote:Money influences politics too much. Let's vote for the guy who is only in the polls because he has tons of money!

But the key is it's his own.......that makes all the difference in the world.

The only way you can win a national election in this country is to be completely bought and paid for by lobbyists and special interests groups, or be independently wealthy about 100X over. Very few people from category 2 actually run because there's no need to deal with the BS they'd have to face. Trump is actually running and refusing to take money from lobbyists which separates him from literally everyone else in the field on either side.

Trump is the rare opportunity where you have an actual candidate who can't be bought because he doesn't need the money. Closest I can remember to this scenario was Perot.

by **slugsrbad** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 14:06:12

Brantt wrote:
FWIW, I am a staunch Democrat

Then why are/were you a registered Republican?

by **pacino** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 14:11:27

cant imagine ill ever directly vote for an oligarchy

by **Brantt** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 14:12:11

slugsrbad wrote:
Brantt wrote:
FWIW, I am a staunch Democrat

Then why are/were you a registered Republican?

Was 18 years old when I registered and based it on being close friends with the family of our state representative.

Switched party affiliation in the fall of 2000 and never looked back.

by **Brantt** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 14:13:00

pacino wrote:cant imagine ill ever directly vote for an oligarchy

Ha! You do every time you vote in a national election.

by **pacino** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 14:14:35

Brantt wrote:
pacino wrote:cant imagine ill ever directly vote for an oligarchy

Ha! You do every time you vote in a national election.

by **lethal** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 14:50:45

Brantt wrote:
JUburton wrote:Money influences politics too much. Let's vote for the guy who is only in the polls because he has tons of money!

But the key is it's his own.......that makes all the difference in the world.

The only way you can win a national election in this country is to be completely bought and paid for by lobbyists and special interests groups, or be independently wealthy about 100X over. Very few people from category 2 actually run because there's no need to deal with the BS they'd have to face. Trump is actually running and refusing to take money from lobbyists which separates him from literally everyone else in the field on either side.

Trump is the rare opportunity where you have an actual candidate who can't be bought because he doesn't need the money. Closest I can remember to this scenario was Perot.

Not a national candidate, but Bloomberg in NYC was the same. After he left office, people found out that he supplemented the city budget with his personal fortune, so if he wanted pet projects done, he paid for them himself instead of using city money and being subject to the political side of the budgetary process.

If it takes $5 billion dollars to run a campaign, I don't know if anyone has the resources and desire to do that when you can spend a ton less and just buy a candidate or few.

by **pacino** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 15:17:44

Brantt wrote:
pacino wrote:cant imagine ill ever directly vote for an oligarchy

Ha! You do every time you vote in a national election.

if you are a staunch Democrat who wants an outsider, why not Bernie Sanders instead of Trump?

by **drsmooth** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 16:38:01

Brantt wrote:Trump is the rare opportunity where you have an actual candidate who can't be bought because he doesn't need the money. Closest I can remember to this scenario was Perot.

Trump is taking contributions AND PAC money. Ross Perot had a brain and at least one legitimate issue. Trump has his dick in his hand.

He is a fraud, and a clown, and a racist, and a boor, and embodies practically everything lousy about America. But go ahead, squander your vote; it's a free country

by **SK790** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 17:05:22

Hes the only guy working outside the system. *Bernie Sanders punches campaign hat in*

by **SK790** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 17:11:36

I don't know how anyone can see how Trump has acted and seriously think "this is definitely the man who should be our top diplomat".

He's a petty child who airs out his dirty laundry in public, he says horribly offensive thing all the time, and he's an asshole about it all.

by **my cousin mose** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 17:13:59

Trump thought it was a good idea for the USFL to compete directly with the NFL. So there's that

by **Bucky** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 17:14:43

i think i'm going to go poke out my eyes now

by **Brantt** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 18:39:03

pacino wrote:
Brantt wrote:
pacino wrote:cant imagine ill ever directly vote for an oligarchy

Ha! You do every time you vote in a national election.

if you are a staunch Democrat who wants an outsider, why not Bernie Sanders instead of Trump?

Doesn't have a chance in hell of winning.........not a prayer.

He's a Jeb Bush / Scott Walker wet dream.

by **jerseyhoya** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 19:38:38

Brantt wrote:FWIW, I am a staunch Democrat who has literally not voted for a Republican candidate since the year 2000 (voted for McCain in the PA primary vs Bush). The Republican establishment's pushing and condoning of Bush / Rove's actions in the 2000 primaries vs McCain, who really was as close to an independent at the time, swore me away from the party ever since (affair with a black woman and child out of wedlock robo calls and mailers BS).

I'm supporting Trump mainly for one reason.......he is the only candidate who is beholden to nobody. Every other candidate on either side is bought and paid for. For God sake, Jeb and Hillary have the same exact donors buying them off......huge corporations who cannot lose no matter what. You know exactly what you are going to get with every other candidate in the field on either side and that is more of the same cronyism and disgraceful (IMO) governing.

Would Trump be a good POTUS? I have no idea, but IMO the system is so shattered at this point that it's worth taking a shot on a guy who is completely anti-establishment. Anyone else falling into that category has zero chance of winning a primary let alone a nomination.

It's a protest vote, but hopefully one with a chance.

A couple of things, even if it's just a throw the bums out/protest vote to shake up the system - you say you haven't voted for the GOP since the dirty tricks from the Bush campaign (or people affiliated with it) in 2000 against McCain. In the past couple of months, Trump has said racially inflammatory things - and he's the candidate, not some backroom guy scheming about shit. He's also impugned the integrity of McCain and POWs generally. If shadowy attacks that went below the belt caused you to dump an entire party, Trump seems like a weird candidate to gravitate toward.

I think you are right Trump is rich enough and unmoored from typical party affiliations so he could spend a lot of his own money and combined with the free media attention he is getting, run an election campaign without becoming beholden to the typical interest groups (although I think people very much overplay how much of a role this plays in presidential elections, but that's an unnecessary digression). However, as doc notes, he has begun accepting donations, and he even attended a fundraising event given by a pro-Trump Super PAC last month. He's worth a lot of money, but a) it's not clear how liquid he is and b) it's always more fun to spend other people's money than your own. I think if he stays in, he will accept a lot of $$ like anyone else.

Beyond that, Trump may not be beholden to the typical GOP or Dem interest groups or the Wall Street donors or whatever, but he's beholden to his own ego. The entirety of his campaign to this point, when asked about any specific policy position, seems to boil down to "trust me I'm a smart guy I went to Wharton and wrote The Art of the Deal and am really, really rich. I'll do something good that you like." which seems pretty unsustainable to me. So you don't get a guy who needs to satisfy the Christian right or public sector unions or hedge fund managers or the #BlackLivesMatter folks once in office, but you're stuck with a guy whose platform is centered on narcissism and other nonsense.

Maybe you think things are so broken that all of that is OK to you. As a vehicle for change, Trump might be doing a decent job highlighting some flaws with American governance, but his 'solutions' wouldn't fix much and would probably make many problems significantly worse.

by **jerseyhoya** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 19:42:48

Brantt wrote:
pacino wrote:
Brantt wrote:
pacino wrote:cant imagine ill ever directly vote for an oligarchy

Ha! You do every time you vote in a national election.

if you are a staunch Democrat who wants an outsider, why not Bernie Sanders instead of Trump?

Doesn't have a chance in hell of winning.........not a prayer.

He's a Jeb Bush / Scott Walker wet dream.

Neither of them are electable in any traditional sense of the word. If you prefer Hillary to whichever non-Trump the GOP will end up nominating, then I would understand your preference for Trump-Hillary over normal GOP-Sanders. But I wouldn't pick Trump as your wreck the system candidate over Bernie on a 'can win' rationale.

by **phatj** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 20:06:52

Imagine a Trump-Sanders general. Nobody would be president

by **jerseyhoya** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 20:08:44

phatj wrote:Imagine a Trump-Sanders general. Nobody would be president

dajafi and I would be honorary co-chairs of the Michael Bloomberg for President campaign

by **pacino** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 21:24:08

wow, two billionaire narcissists in the same election. twice the fun

by **MoBettle** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 21:33:29

Would probably vote for bloomberg if he ran.

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