All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby karn » Sun Sep 08, 2013 17:06:48

How do you know it's not? Shouldn't - if there was more to it than that - we have heard of something by now? Based on the congressional polls heading into the vote, it sounds like many remain opposed or on the fence, so it's not like they've been blown away by incontrovertible proof in their intelligence briefings on the matter. As there is as little evidence today as there was on Aug 21 to confirm Assad as the perpetrator, Putin was justified to say that if there is proof it was a government attack then it must be shared or else it is just as likely to have been a western "provocation."

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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Sun Sep 08, 2013 17:35:23

The Dude wrote:... We still don't even know who did this ...

As I understand, Bashar al-Assad didn't directly order the chem attacks, but his brother Maher who is the general in charge of the armored division that's retaking the territories around Damascus. Maher al-Assad's tactics have been to chem gas a teritory prior to retaking it. The first 30+ times were small gas attacks with around 100 dead in total but that last one was a big'un that got the world's attention. But the buck stops with the prez, hence why Bashar is ultimately responsible.
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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby pacino » Sun Sep 08, 2013 22:07:59

Bloomberg is upset de Blasio is out there campaigning in a racist and divisive manner by showing his family:
Then there’s Bill de Blasio, who’s become the Democratic front-runner. He has in some ways been running a class-warfare campaign—
Class-warfare and racist.

Racist?
I mean he’s making an appeal using his family to gain support. I think it’s pretty obvious to anyone watching what he’s been doing. I do not think he himself is racist. It’s comparable to me pointing out I’m Jewish in attracting the Jewish vote. You tailor messages to your audiences and address issues you think your audience cares about.

But his whole campaign is that there are two different cities here. And I’ve never liked that kind of division. The way to help those who are less fortunate is, number one, to attract more very fortunate people. They are the ones that pay the bills. The people that would get very badly hurt here if you drive out the very wealthy are the people he professes to try to help. Tearing people apart with this “two cities” thing doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s a destructive strategy for those you want to help the most. He’s a very populist, very left-wing guy, but this city is not two groups, and if to some extent it is, it’s one group paying for services for the other.

It’s a shame, because I’ve always thought he was a very smart guy.

But it’s not just De Blasio. Eliot Spitzer, too, has run an anti-Bloomberg campaign. If they were to both win, how much of a repudiation of you would that be?
Zero.


on stop and frisk:
How do you square that view with the ruling last month that it is unconstitutional?
The judge is just wrong. We have not racial-profiled, we’ve gone where the crime is. I don’t have any doubts that she will be reversed right away. The question is, will our successor continue the battle? I cannot get involved in the next administration, nor should I. But for something like that I would certainly make my views known.

not sure what math he's looking at there

On schools, given the issues involved, and the importance of the teachers union, was it bound to be contentious and hostile?
I don’t blame everything on the union. The union’s job is not to educate the kids, it’s not to improve the school system; it’s to get the best working conditions, fewest hours, and the most money for its members. They will fight and die to prevent their members from ever being evaluated and pushed out of the job if the results aren’t there.

Bill Thompson, after getting the UFT endorsement, said he wouldn’t “demonize teachers” if he’s mayor. Have you demonized teachers?
No; the only ones that demonize teachers are the UFT. Most teachers, if you survey them, want to be treated as professionals. Mike Mulgrew [compared them to] truck drivers. I don’t think most teachers want to be compared to truck drivers.

No mayor has ever given as big of a raise to teachers as I have. I think it was something like 43 percent day one. Before, we couldn’t recruit and we couldn’t retain. Today, a teacher that started out five or six years ago making $60,000 can be at $80,000. We’ve done a lot for the teachers, and I think they appreciate it. They’ve done a lot too. They really have improved the school system. It is dramatically better.

fucking lazy ass truck drivers

You’ve been a Democrat. You’ve been a Republican. You’re currently an Independent. Which party do you feel closest to now?
I would describe myself as a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. But I think I’m too liberal for the liberals, because I actually try to deliver the services rather than just promise them. If they delivered everything they promised, nobody could afford it. I actually am a conservative more so than other conservatives in the sense that I think you could go and cut 2 or 3 percent out of the budget in every agency. We’ve done that twelve times, and we’ve cut roughly a billion and a half and there’s six-odd billion that’s recurring, and you can go and cut people or find other revenue sources. There are ways to do those things.

But given the Republican intransigence on things you care about, you can’t really be so evenhanded about the parties.
There are plenty of Democrats who I don’t agree with. I can’t get them to vote for a bill to stop this carnage with guns on our streets. I don’t see the party rushing out and trying to throw those members out. They’re not without sin, both sides.

both sides are bad! BOTH SIDES HAVE SINS!!!!!
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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby dajafi » Sun Sep 08, 2013 22:17:42

The "racist" remark was really, really stupid.

And of course he's absolutely right about the parties.

Love him or hate him based on his policies and personality, Bloomberg was absolutely unique in modern American politics in a way I think most would appreciate. No partisan allegiance. No need to curry favor for fundraising. No realistic ambition to higher office. An ego impervious to criticism. We will never see as truly independent a public official again.

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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby drsmooth » Sun Sep 08, 2013 22:33:10

karn wrote:How do you know it's not? Shouldn't - if there was more to it than that - we have heard of something by now?


which district were you elected to represent in Congress again?
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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby The Dude » Mon Sep 09, 2013 07:36:50

Phan In Phlorida wrote:
The Dude wrote:... We still don't even know who did this ...

As I understand, Bashar al-Assad didn't directly order the chem attacks, but his brother Maher who is the general in charge of the armored division that's retaking the territories around Damascus. Maher al-Assad's tactics have been to chem gas a teritory prior to retaking it. The first 30+ times were small gas attacks with around 100 dead in total but that last one was a big'un that got the world's attention. But the buck stops with the prez, hence why Bashar is ultimately responsible.


I'm much more comfortable seeing this evidence or letting the UN do their job rather than just act hastily, though.
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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby karn » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:35:21

drsmooth wrote:
karn wrote:How do you know it's not? Shouldn't - if there was more to it than that - we have heard of something by now?


which district were you elected to represent in Congress again?

As has been said upthread, this will be a vote whether or not to start war. You yourself have waxed rhapsodic about the abhorrent nature of war. Yet your responses imply a comfortability with the decision-making that would begin such a campaign even as the the mouthpieces from those decision-makers readily admit: White House: U.S. Lacks 'Irrefutable, Beyond-A-Reasonable-Doubt Evidence' On Syria Chemical Weapons Attack.

I don't expect myself or the public to be privy to the raw high-level intelligence but if "common sense" rather than irrefutable evidence is now the standard for military aggression then one need not be a congressional representative to see that as irresponsible.

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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby karn » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:58:26

Heartening to see someone still attempting diplomacy
Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters
Russia says it will urge Syria to put chemical weapons under international control if that will avert military strikes

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters
Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov says Moscow does not know whether Syria will accept proposal

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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby traderdave » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:26:17

karn wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
karn wrote:How do you know it's not? Shouldn't - if there was more to it than that - we have heard of something by now?


which district were you elected to represent in Congress again?

As has been said upthread, this will be a vote whether or not to start war. You yourself have waxed rhapsodic about the abhorrent nature of war. Yet your responses imply a comfortability with the decision-making that would begin such a campaign even as the the mouthpieces from those decision-makers readily admit: White House: U.S. Lacks 'Irrefutable, Beyond-A-Reasonable-Doubt Evidence' On Syria Chemical Weapons Attack.

I don't expect myself or the public to be privy to the raw high-level intelligence but if "common sense" rather than irrefutable evidence is now the standard for military aggression then one need not be a congressional representative to see that as irresponsible.


That is quite a step back from the White House's position last week, is it not? My previous impression was that they had pictures of Assad riding the missiles to their destinations; the story above makes it seem more like "well, my friends' friends' brother-in-law knows a guy who heard from a cabbie that Assad did it".

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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby pacino » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:59:19

karn wrote:Heartening to see someone still attempting diplomacy
Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters
Russia says it will urge Syria to put chemical weapons under international control if that will avert military strikes

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters
Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov says Moscow does not know whether Syria will accept proposal

why are you acting like Kerry didnt already request this from them before Russia then did this?
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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby slugsrbad » Mon Sep 09, 2013 13:11:08

pacino wrote:
karn wrote:Heartening to see someone still attempting diplomacy
Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters
Russia says it will urge Syria to put chemical weapons under international control if that will avert military strikes

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters
Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov says Moscow does not know whether Syria will accept proposal

why are you acting like Kerry didnt already request this from them before Russia then did this?


Also this ignores Russia's motives. This isn't Russia being neighborhood nice guy, they're just trying to protect their interests.
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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Mon Sep 09, 2013 13:21:10

If only Assad was seen walking out of a convenience store with what could have been mixers for purple drank, then the order to kill him could be made with a less heavy heart.
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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby td11 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 13:39:51

lol
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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Mon Sep 09, 2013 14:59:18

dajafi wrote:We will never see as truly independent a public official again.

Until the next billionaire decides to run for public office.

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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Mon Sep 09, 2013 15:00:08

pacino wrote:
karn wrote:Heartening to see someone still attempting diplomacy
Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters
Russia says it will urge Syria to put chemical weapons under international control if that will avert military strikes

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters
Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov says Moscow does not know whether Syria will accept proposal

why are you acting like Kerry didnt already request this from them before Russia then did this?

I suspect there's some posturing going on there.

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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby karn » Mon Sep 09, 2013 16:41:30

slugsrbad wrote:
pacino wrote:
karn wrote:Heartening to see someone still attempting diplomacy
Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters
Russia says it will urge Syria to put chemical weapons under international control if that will avert military strikes

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters
Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov says Moscow does not know whether Syria will accept proposal

why are you acting like Kerry didnt already request this from them before Russia then did this?


Also this ignores Russia's motives. This isn't Russia being neighborhood nice guy, they're just trying to protect their interests.

Of course, and good for them and good for us. But if they're able to accomplish our objectives preventing further proliferation peacefully then that's a good thing. We can sort out the rest at a table rather than with missiles.

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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby Werthless » Mon Sep 09, 2013 16:54:22

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:
dajafi wrote:We will never see as truly independent a public official again.

Until the next billionaire decides to run for public office.

I think you mean "gets elected to." Meg Whitman sure realizes the difference. :)

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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby CalvinBall » Tue Sep 10, 2013 08:04:26

Syria accepted Russia's proposal. I don't know. This is bizarre. Good if true.

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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby drsmooth » Tue Sep 10, 2013 08:44:59

CalvinBall wrote:Syria accepted Russia's proposal. I don't know. This is bizarre. Good if true.


that Asshead is a clever cat, agreeing to turn over imaginary chemical weapons he hasn't fired at anyone & so may not even have himself personally in actual fact


8-)
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Re: All Your Bash Ar Belong To US - Politics

Postby pacino » Tue Sep 10, 2013 08:50:17

someone needs to seriously visit Rodman at his home and tell him to back the fuck up and stop messing everything up with North Korea. and why is Vice giving this idiot a platform?
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