Fake and Real scandals, and Louie Gohmert Love Politics

by **Phan In Phlorida** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 03:30:12

Supposedly, from refugee accounts and sources inside Syria, there were more than 30 smaller scale chem weapon attacks (100 or so killed in total) that preluded the larger one that got everyone's attention (of which the death toll is now suspected to be over 1,000 when accounting for mass graves, missing people, etc.).

It seems Obama wants nothing to do with Syria. Assad is an ass, but the other side will likely be asses if they gain power (some ties to terror networks, suspicion they'll slaughter christians, druzes, other minority groups, etc.). It's a big "do not want" ass sandwich.

by **drsmooth** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 08:03:42

love Slick Willie reminiscing about where he was when King delivered The Speech: "sitting in a white leather recliner" in his living room as a soon-to-be HS senior

He leaves out the open double album cover, the rolling papers, the baggie on his lap....

by **Wheels Tupay** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:10:13

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Supposedly, from refugee accounts and sources inside Syria, there were more than 30 smaller scale chem weapon attacks (100 or so killed in total) that preluded the larger one that got everyone's attention (of which the death toll is now suspected to be over 1,000 when accounting for mass graves, missing people, etc.).

It seems Obama wants nothing to do with Syria. Assad is an ass, but the other side will likely be asses if they gain power (some ties to terror networks, suspicion they'll slaughter christians, druzes, other minority groups, etc.). It's a big "do not want" ass sandwich.

Come on man, if Obama really didn't want this they wouldn't have been arming and supplying the rebels. We are always hoping for a fight and when we can't get one we just declare national security interests and attack.

by **pacino** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:21:11

down goes New Mexico, 14th state to have legalized marriage equality

by **td11** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:56:49

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... _nerve_gas

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-2 ... ttack.html

by **slugsrbad** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 13:56:39

Lonegan is an idiot

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/s ... 95984.html

by **pacino** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 13:59:16

“It’s kind of weird,” Lonegan added. “As a guy, I personally like being a guy.”

And, Lonegan noted, “I don’t know if you saw the stories last year. They’ve been out for quite a bit about how he likes to go out at three o’clock in the morning for a manicure and a pedicure.”

“I don’t like going out in the middle of the night or any time of the day for a manicure and pedicure. It was described as his peculiar fetish, is how it was described,” Lonegan said. “I have a more peculiar fetish; I like a good Scotch and a cigar; that’s my fetish, but we’ll just compare the two.”

by **TenuredVulture** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 16:02:25

In my mind, the problem with Syrian and similar interventions is because you're entering a situation with lots of unknowns, and lots of in Rumsfeld's words unknown unknowns, planning is impossible. Furthermore, the people doing the planning, the high level policy and military experts have a terrible track record with these things. This is in part because they base decisions on whatever doctrine or ideology they favor, and they emphasize information that confirms that doctrine while discounting information that counters that.

You always end up oversimplifying things in chaotic situations--it can't be helped. The problem is that in chaotic systems, tiny differences in initial conditions can lead to wide deviations in outcomes. So, your model or oversimplification is useless or worse. On top of that, you'll find people drawing analogies based on a handful of shared similarities, but no one knows which similarities are relevant. Is Syrian going to be like Iraq? Or Libya? Or Egypt? Or Kosovo? I actually think the attempt at drawing parallels to Iraq are wrongheaded for all kinds of reasons. But I really don't think any of the handy recent comparisons are handy at all.

It seems to me though that the reason behind intervening is Syria is pretty weak at this point--we said chemical weapons were a red line, Assad crossed that line, so we need to hit him with a few cruise missiles for the sake of our credibility. Hard to think of a worse reason for intervention.

by **td11** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 16:19:08

pretty out of my depth here, but i thought the geneva convention was the reason chemical weapons were the red line?

by **Luzinski's Gut** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 16:44:50

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/27/ ... crosshair/

Read this if you want to see why this entire Syria mess is going to be completely ineffective.

by **pacino** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 16:49:58

the dude that wrote that lives on a boat in the middle of the sea. pretty cool

by **TenuredVulture** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 17:36:01

Did Holbrooke really say more bombing leads to better diplomacy?

by **jerseyhoya** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 18:06:43

So What's It Going To Be? - The Onion with a gem

by **jerseyhoya** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 18:10:25

Obama says enforcing the international norm against the usage of chemical weapons is a core American interest

by **drsmooth** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 18:44:53

jerseyhoya wrote:So What's It Going To Be? - The Onion with a gem

It's ok I guess. A gem? No

Back here in the real world Asad has to weigh his chances if he pushes the guy who offed the Planet's Most Wanted Badass too far.

Asad has to know that if Barry does decide to grease him - a lot better idea than blowing up lots of random shit - neither the Chinese nor the Russians will even contribute to the fund for rounding up his rotting remains, and that the POTUS has been pretty successful cashing the checks he writes in cases like his (see offing the Planet's Most Wanted Badass above). Frankly the Chinese and the Russians would probably not do too much to prevent a clear shot at the guy's ugly mug.

Even better, you take him out, and simultaneously take out the heads of whatever rebel factions you're not happy about. Problem solved!

I mean, since we're considering gem-like Onion-type strategies.

by **drsmooth** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 18:54:52

Luzinski's Gut wrote:http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/27/syria-in-the-crosshair/

Read this if you want to see why this entire Syria mess is going to be completely ineffective.

Wow, Spinney seems to have more axes he wants to grind than Frantz Schmidt

I agree with the 2 points he finds "fatally flawed". But he is one bitter dude about something, or some things....

by **karn** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 19:09:39

drsmooth wrote:Back here in the real world Asad has to weigh his chances if he pushes the guy who offed the Planet's Most Wanted Badass too far.

If that's the benchmark for Obama's wrath - in all its clusterfucked glory of execution, presentation and aftermath - then yes Assad should be gravely concerned and so should every US military personnel involved in the Syria process.

In other news, UK is standing down from its rhetoric of the past 72 hours to wait - like civilized people - for the UN team (about which such a big deal was made here up until the moment they actually arrived) to conclude its process. A major western backtracking in this instance will actually be progress.

by **drsmooth** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 19:39:56

what happened to your ears? You used to be able to hear. You don't hear so good now

by **Luzinski's Gut** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 20:41:58

Yeah, Chuck Spinney is an interesting dude. He's been a gadfly in DoD for over 30 years. Was on the cover of Time magazine back in the 80s as part of the Defense Reform Movement.

He's brilliant and has a much different perspective on the world than most.

He was so disgusted with DoD that he basically wanted to sail around the Med and leave everything behind.

by **drsmooth** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 22:31:01

Luzinski's Gut wrote:Yeah, Chuck Spinney is an interesting dude. He's been a gadfly in DoD for over 30 years. Was on the cover of Time magazine back in the 80s as part of the Defense Reform Movement.

He's brilliant and has a much different perspective on the world than most.

He was so disgusted with DoD that he basically wanted to sail around the Med and leave everything behind.

in tone, reminded me of the Paul Vann parts of the Paul Vann bio I just finished reading

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