Fake and Real scandals, and Louie Gohmert Love Politics

by **Bucky** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 14:49:12

i think he's trying to choose to serve the greater good. Get the message through while not fully exploiting the democratic process, or wait and send a weaker message (maybe) on behalf of the entire legislative branch. He chose the latter.

Which one is the greater good I guess is up for debate.

by **jerseyhoya** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 14:53:10

Bucky wrote:i think he's trying to choose to serve the greater good. Get the message through while not fully exploiting the democratic process, or wait and send a weaker message (maybe) on behalf of the entire legislative branch. He chose the latter.

Which one is the greater good I guess is up for debate.

He could've made this decision a week ago if he was trying to serve the greater good. He's only going this way now because efforts at building a real coalition have fallen apart.

by **swishnicholson** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 15:00:26

This is what I love about this thread. Virtually everyone has made the contention that military action in Syria would be undesirable and ineffective.

But everyone finds a reason to scream at each other anyway.

by **Bucky** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 15:10:58

WHAT THE EFF DO YOU MEAN NICHOLSON I NEVER SCREAM AT ANYBODY YOU BIG GALLOOT

by **jerseyhoya** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 15:27:18

swishnicholson wrote:This is what I love about this thread. Virtually everyone has made the contention that military action in Syria would be undesirable and ineffective.

But everyone finds a reason to scream at each other anyway.

I'd say desirable and ineffective.

by **jerseyhoya** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 16:05:11

Michael van Poppel ‏@mpoppel
AP: Obama planned to take military action against Syria without congressional authorization, but changed his mind last night

by **The Nightman Cometh** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 18:00:13

"OMG HE'S NOT GOING TO ASK CONGRESS BEFORE BOMBING SYRIA"

Obama asks congress....

"OMG HE'S DELAYING THE RESPONSE"

by **karn** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 18:33:29

drsmooth wrote:
karn wrote:- on Monday the rhetoric was strong and insistent and the wheels seemed to be in motion for fast action, but by Wednesday the near universal outcry in opposition forced complete strategic revaluation.

Sort of like how shit happens in the real world

pretty amazing stuff

Well, it's a rare, refreshing appearance of humility which does makes it amazing - I'll give you that. But, please, let's not act like this is standard operating procedure or in any way reflective of the real world or real world issues. Nothing about playing war games is approachable to most people. This was in his and a lot of other important imperial type's best interests so he gave it careful consideration and acted unconventionally. On plenty of other issues he's shown himself to be stubborn and disinterested in compromise or revision, especially with regard to his sweeping social reforms where the outcry is largely from unimportant people.

by **dajafi** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 18:47:02

I'm mostly glad about this for the break from recent precedent. Hopefully we get back in the habit of actually engaging the representatives of the people, however imperfect and imbecilic they might be, when using force.

The delay won't make the "action" any more or less in/effective, and it saves political capital for fights that, while not really more important, at least can be won or lost in a way this can't.

What's unsettling about it is the transparent theater of the whole thing. It won't change the course of the war, or even deter future use of chemical weapons. We've made it all about us, as usual.

by **karn** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 18:50:23

The Nightman Cometh wrote:"OMG HE'S NOT GOING TO ASK CONGRESS BEFORE BOMBING SYRIA"

Obama asks congress....

"OMG HE'S DELAYING THE RESPONSE"

If it can wait for Congress now, what was the purpose of this week's soap opera? At best, it mitigates defensibly unwise to simply amateurish.

by **drsmooth** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 19:43:00

Gonna go ahead & say I called this shot

Jerz, i hope you don't stumble over your backpedaling self

by **drsmooth** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 19:46:28

jerseyhoya wrote:I'd say desirable and ineffective.

whA

by **Phan In Phlorida** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 04:07:50

jerseyhoya wrote:Obama, Boehner and Reid need to get Congress back by Tuesday

We were all set to go this week, now we're waiting two more weeks? The whole point of action is to send a message that usage of chemical weapons is a nono. What the hell message is this sending?

If you use WMDs on your own people, we'll give you time to move your stuff?

by **cshort** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 08:11:52

jerseyhoya wrote:Obama, Boehner and Reid need to get Congress back by Tuesday

We were all set to go this week, now we're waiting two more weeks? The whole point of action is to send a message that usage of chemical weapons is a nono. What the hell message is this sending?

If I'm Iran, it means I'm building nukes. I don't know that anyone would even have Israel's back if they tried to do anything.

by **jerseyhoya** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 20:12:11

drsmooth wrote:Gonna go ahead & say I called this shot

Jerz, i hope you don't stumble over your backpedaling self

You ended up being correct. I, along with all of Obama's top national security advisors, were very surprised at Obama's change of heart.

It's like you called my kings with a pair of 6s, hit a 6 on the river, and think I should feel bad about playing my kings.

After a 45-minute walk Friday night, President Barack Obama made a fateful decision that none of his top national security advisers saw coming: To seek congressional authorization before taking military action in Syria.

The stunning about-face after a week of U.S. saber rattling risked not only igniting a protracted congressional fight, which could end with a vote against strikes, but a backlash from allies in the Middle East who had warned the White House that inaction would embolden not only Syrian President Bashar al-Assad but his closest allies, Iran and Hezbollah.

Aides said the decision was made by Mr. Obama and Mr. Obama alone. It shows the primacy the president places on protecting his hoped-for legacy as a commander in chief who did everything in his power to disentangle the U.S. from overseas wars. Until Friday night, Mr. Obama's national-security team didn't even have an option on the table to seek a congressional authorization.

by **jerseyhoya** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 20:13:08

The Nightman Cometh wrote:"OMG HE'S NOT GOING TO ASK CONGRESS BEFORE BOMBING SYRIA"

Obama asks congress....

"OMG HE'S DELAYING THE RESPONSE"

He delayed in going to Congress, and isn't pushing them to come back sooner. The two complaints aren't as contradictory as you seem to think they are.

by **jerseyhoya** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 20:18:56

drsmooth wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:I'd say desirable and ineffective.
whA

I think Obama's red line statement on top a reasonable desire to enforce a norm against the use of chemical weapons means that the administration's credibility and that of the country requires that he respond forcefully to Assad's provocations - and this threat to American credibility has only grown over the last week with the statements of Obama and Kerry. I don't think missile strikes will be particularly effective at turning the tide of the war or hurting Assad (especially since it seems like we're planning on going out of our way to do neither of those things). But I still think they're worth doing due to the first bit there.

by **The Nightman Cometh** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 21:39:50

jerseyhoya wrote:
The Nightman Cometh wrote:"OMG HE'S NOT GOING TO ASK CONGRESS BEFORE BOMBING SYRIA"

Obama asks congress....

"OMG HE'S DELAYING THE RESPONSE"

He delayed in going to Congress, and isn't pushing them to come back sooner. The two complaints aren't as contradictory as you seem to think they are.

My assumption is he is using the time to rally support.

I agree with you about the situation and feel like your disagreements with Obama mostly stem from the fact of him having a D next to his place on the ballot.

by **drsmooth** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 21:52:37

jerseyhoya wrote:It's like you called my kings with a pair of 6s, hit a 6 on the river, and think I should feel bad about playing my kings.

asstoot analysis, mr. romney

by **Luzinski's Gut** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 09:57:09

The other aspect to the Congressional decision for Syria is that it potentially gives the President and SECDEF much greater logic to cut the Department of Defense budget even further.

DoD has been very vocal about not going into Syria, and there are a number of articles this week about leaks (some called them floods) emanating from DoD about how we're going to approach Syria.

If Congress says no, then there is even more reason for the President to cut the DoD budget. If they say yes, I suspect we'll see requests from more OCO supplemental, especially when the missile strikes are completely ineffective and the Administration is left wondering what the hell they can do next.

Brilliant move on the President's part on a number of levels.

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