Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Thu Jun 06, 2013 08:05:59

glad to see it took Obama in office for you to realize we still have civi liberties. well, however you got there, welcome to the club, jh.
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby dajafi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 08:49:48

jerseyhoya wrote:Because of conservative policies, of course. Well argued.


More like neoliberal consensus, it's true. The destruction of union power and erosion of the safety net and regulatory apparatus--the creation of economic circumstances in which both parents had to work--was more or less bipartisan.

About the most one could blame "conservatives" for is the stupidity of asserting (and believing?) that we can have 1950s cultural norms without the economic policy context.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Roger Dorn » Thu Jun 06, 2013 08:58:21

Yeah I'm not comfortable with the non-questioning of broad government surveillance. I can't stomach the counter argument of "Well, I've got nothing to hide." Not the point at all, the point is whether people care about civil liberties enough to protest the governments intrusion into our personal lives. Obama and Bush have both been terrible in this regard, Bush more so because he really got the ball rolling with the Patriot Act. Unfortunately, at the end of the day most Americans will side with security over civil liberties. I don't fall into that camp.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Thu Jun 06, 2013 09:08:27

About the most one could blame "conservatives" for is the stupidity of asserting (and believing?) that we can have 1950s cultural norms without the economic policy context.

or that those norms existed, or that wealth was being acquired by all.

i would also say that something being bipartisan does not mean it isn't conservative.
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:04:26

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:I give you the Republican nominee for Lieutenant Governor of Virginia:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/06/virginia-gop-candidate-ew-jackson-yoga-satan/65925/

E.W. Jackson is the Republican candidate for Virginia lieutenant governor, and he's a pretty interesting guy with a lot of opinions. Some of these opinions — especially on gays, like that they are "ikky" — have made him more famous than most candidates for lieutenant governor. On Wednesday, we learned that Jackson has some interesting ideas on a new topic: yoga. As The National Review's Betsy Woodruff reports, Jackson warns that yoga can put you at risk for satanic possession in his 2008 book, Ten Commandments to an Extraordinary Life: Making Your Dreams Come True.

"When one hears the word meditation, it conjures an image of Maharishi Yoga talking about finding a mantra and striving for nirvana... The purpose of such meditation is to empty oneself... [Satan] is happy to invade the empty vacuum of your soul and possess it. That is why people serve Satan without ever knowing it or deciding to, but no one can be a child of God without making a decision to surrender to him. Beware of systems of spirituality which tell you to empty yourself. You will end up filled with something you probably do not want."


This guy is the gift that keeps on giving.

In her longer profile of Jackson, Woodruff notes his interesting take on charitable giving. In his book, Jackson says, "While giving to the poor is important, the most powerful giving for wealth building is upward giving." What's upward giving? Giving money to E.W. Jackson.

For example, as you read this book, you may feel a deep spiritual affinity for the things I am teaching and therefore a profound spiritual kinship with me. We may never meet in person, but you can draw on the anointing which God has placed on my life by sowing into my ministry. That opens a spiritual door for you to partake at a deeper level and for me to impart to you as one in Covenant with me. That is how I have come to support other ministries. Wherever you are moved to give, do it consistently and generously. This will start a flow of prosperity in your life which will enhance all the other principles you have learned
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:04:28

Roger Dorn wrote:Yeah I'm not comfortable with the non-questioning of broad government surveillance.


among the things about this that should make us uncomfortable is that when we're talking about the subject, there is little chance we're all talking about, or worried about, or knowlegeable about, anything like the same thing.

I mean, the gummint has 'watched' what americans earn, purchase, pay taxes on, build, attend, etc, etc, etc, for, well, ever. So are we caviling about the frequency, the detail, the aggregation, the access to reports on, two or more of the above plus other? "Discussion" of "the" topic gets pretty fuzzy pretty fast
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:10:43

jerseyhoya wrote:Because of conservative policies, of course. Well argued.



Well yeah--destruction of unions is pretty much a Republican policy. Also, the negative effects of working moms may have a ton to do with the fact that the child care industry is more or less unregulated, another Republican policy.
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:13:33

dajafi wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Because of conservative policies, of course. Well argued.


More like neoliberal consensus, it's true. The destruction of union power and erosion of the safety net and regulatory apparatus--the creation of economic circumstances in which both parents had to work--was more or less bipartisan.

About the most one could blame "conservatives" for is the stupidity of asserting (and believing?) that we can have 1950s cultural norms without the economic policy context.



More seriously--if only social conservatives were for real instead of dupes for capitalists, and in addition to all the other stuff, they argued for policies that actually supported a two parent household and the payment of decent wages for breadwinners.
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby dajafi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:28:01

My sense was that Huckabee edged toward this at a couple points, before realizing that his viability as either a Republican of national stature or a right-wing media personality was entirely dependent on leaving all that behind.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:37:42

It would have to come about as a grass roots thing. Someone is going to have to wake up and realize that Thomas Frank is right.
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Luzinski's Gut » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:38:42

It's a dumb counter-argument because one day they will find something that was considered normal in the past, but not ok now or in the future.

Civil liberties have been massacred in our country - the concept of privacy is dead and buried.

I share your beliefs for the record. Security is largely a psychological condition and can be manipulated by those who desire manipulation...same psychological tendencies associated with marketing and branding.

Roger Dorn wrote:Yeah I'm not comfortable with the non-questioning of broad government surveillance. I can't stomach the counter argument of "Well, I've got nothing to hide." Not the point at all, the point is whether people care about civil liberties enough to protest the governments intrusion into our personal lives. Obama and Bush have both been terrible in this regard, Bush more so because he really got the ball rolling with the Patriot Act. Unfortunately, at the end of the day most Americans will side with security over civil liberties. I don't fall into that camp.
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:13:10

dajafi wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Because of conservative policies, of course. Well argued.


More like neoliberal consensus, it's true. The destruction of union power and erosion of the safety net and regulatory apparatus--the creation of economic circumstances in which both parents had to work--was more or less bipartisan.

About the most one could blame "conservatives" for is the stupidity of asserting (and believing?) that we can have 1950s cultural norms without the economic policy context.

I think two major changes largely above the policy making level - globalization and technological progress - have had far more impact on the economic circumstances that have led to where we are now than anything directed from Washington or at the state or local level.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:36:04

jerseyhoya wrote:I think two major changes largely above the policy making level - globalization and technological progress - have had far more impact on the economic circumstances that have led to where we are now than anything directed from Washington or at the state or local level.


in our era, these twin flames are not exactly fanned foremost by the governments or entrepreneurial swashbucklers in, say, New Zealand. Get out one of those slick maps that sizes nations by their share of the world's economic activity, you'll get what I mean
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:51:38

Luzinski's Gut wrote:
Civil liberties have been massacred in our country - the concept of privacy is dead and buried.


not so sure it's dead so much as that it's been taken for granted so long, people treat it as dead.

In a way, "privacy" is like a conceptual mirror of "terror" - ideas we are eager to treat as 'friends' or 'enemies', but which are really neither, so our native tendency to evaluate by feeling is unsuited to the topics.

Luzinski's Gut wrote:I share your beliefs for the record. Security is largely a psychological condition and can be manipulated by those who desire manipulation...same psychological tendencies associated with marketing and branding.


now you're talking, general. Your posts continue to intrigue me, and I would like to serve in your militia
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Bucky » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:57:16

regardless of the initial cause & blame, it is the current conservative agenda that continues the propagate the need for two-income families. That agenda includes convincing the middle class that it's the poor whom are to blame for all of their unhappiness.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Roger Dorn » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:09:06

"I don't think you're talking to terrorists. I know you're not. I'm not," Graham, a Verizon customer, continued. "So we don't have anything to worry about. I'm glad the activity is going on, but it is limited to tracking people who are suspected to be terrorists and who they may be talking to."
Graham was then pressed on whether he was sure the NSA was only using the information for counterterrorism.
"Yes, I'm sure that that's what they're doing," Graham said. "I'm sure we should be doing this."

No surprise that the weasel Graham offered up this half assed defense of the program. The problem is Feinstein also offered up a similar refrain of "Its called protecting America", so it's spreads across both parties. This is exactly why I side with Luzinski and Smooth, the potential for great abuse exists and we are offered consolation from our leaders that "they're sure that's what they are doing" or at least they're "sure we should be doing this." Awesome, thanks.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby dajafi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:15:05

jerseyhoya wrote:
dajafi wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Because of conservative policies, of course. Well argued.


More like neoliberal consensus, it's true. The destruction of union power and erosion of the safety net and regulatory apparatus--the creation of economic circumstances in which both parents had to work--was more or less bipartisan.

About the most one could blame "conservatives" for is the stupidity of asserting (and believing?) that we can have 1950s cultural norms without the economic policy context.

I think two major changes largely above the policy making level - globalization and technological progress - have had far more impact on the economic circumstances that have led to where we are now than anything directed from Washington or at the state or local level.


I go back and forth on this one. The industrial order of the '50s was probably a unique byproduct of a world war that put our economy on steroids while wrecking everyone else's. And technological advances certainly intensified the economic returns to education (and IMO did weird things to our understanding of class that I don't think are remotely understood).

But "globalization" was in part a set of policy choices, as were changes to the tax and regulatory framework. The Great Compression was the result of one mindset, its dismantling the fruit of another.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Luzinski's Gut » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:58:07

This isn't the first dance for globalization however.

The British Empire during the reign of Victoria was based on a global economy. The problem was that it was based on imperialism and was actually too expensive to maintain. The British realized in the 1890s that their empire was unsustainable because of the costs...the two world wars and the Great Depression accelerated the decline dramatically. For a good 30-40 years, however, the British Economy was the largest in the world and dominated by trade from their colonies.

Our economy of the 40s, 50s and early 60s was driven by the accumulating of huge amounts of wealth from financing the wars for the Allies, from the plunder of German advanced science (the German dye and textile industries were 30-40 years advanced than anyone else in the world, and a number of their military advancements had commercial applications), and most importantly, from the development and sustainment of a fossil fuel economy. Remember, oil was just coming of age in the 1930s and was not readily available in the world...there wasn't any real economic competition.


dajafi wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
dajafi wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Because of conservative policies, of course. Well argued.


More like neoliberal consensus, it's true. The destruction of union power and erosion of the safety net and regulatory apparatus--the creation of economic circumstances in which both parents had to work--was more or less bipartisan.

About the most one could blame "conservatives" for is the stupidity of asserting (and believing?) that we can have 1950s cultural norms without the economic policy context.

I think two major changes largely above the policy making level - globalization and technological progress - have had far more impact on the economic circumstances that have led to where we are now than anything directed from Washington or at the state or local level.


I go back and forth on this one. The industrial order of the '50s was probably a unique byproduct of a world war that put our economy on steroids while wrecking everyone else's. And technological advances certainly intensified the economic returns to education (and IMO did weird things to our understanding of class that I don't think are remotely understood).

But "globalization" was in part a set of policy choices, as were changes to the tax and regulatory framework. The Great Compression was the result of one mindset, its dismantling the fruit of another.
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Thu Jun 06, 2013 13:15:26

are liberals in NJ actually going to go with the liberal, Russ Holt, or are they going to vote Cory Booker because of his name recognition? Does Holt have widespread name recognition in NJ, enough to win?
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby td11 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 13:24:15

A senior administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity, did not specifically confirm the report, but noted the published court order pertains only to data such as a telephone number or the length of a call, and not the subscribers' identities or the content of the telephone calls.



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/ ... 2920130606

so all they did is keep tabs on who you called and for how long??
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