Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby phatj » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:53:16

I don't think that was necessarily implied, but I can see how it could be interpreted that way.
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Houshphandzadeh » Wed Jun 05, 2013 14:10:14

shouldn't we stop hamstringing every discussion by attacking the language even when we agree that's not what he meant?

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Barry Jive » Wed Jun 05, 2013 14:15:06

it always matters how you say something, even if what he said means what he should have said. the meaning isn't the point of debate
no offense but you are everything that's wrong with America

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 15:37:05

Yes. Words matter. They also can reveal a person's world views and assumptions.

Example: I had a former co-worker who was proud to tell you that he didn't consider himself "black." Great, right? Post-racial view of the world, etc. Except that it also confirms to white people who are predisposed to thinking that way that there is something shameful about being black, something that no one should aspire to be associated with.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 15:56:35

I give you the Republican nominee for Lieutenant Governor of Virginia:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/06/virginia-gop-candidate-ew-jackson-yoga-satan/65925/

E.W. Jackson is the Republican candidate for Virginia lieutenant governor, and he's a pretty interesting guy with a lot of opinions. Some of these opinions — especially on gays, like that they are "ikky" — have made him more famous than most candidates for lieutenant governor. On Wednesday, we learned that Jackson has some interesting ideas on a new topic: yoga. As The National Review's Betsy Woodruff reports, Jackson warns that yoga can put you at risk for satanic possession in his 2008 book, Ten Commandments to an Extraordinary Life: Making Your Dreams Come True.

"When one hears the word meditation, it conjures an image of Maharishi Yoga talking about finding a mantra and striving for nirvana... The purpose of such meditation is to empty oneself... [Satan] is happy to invade the empty vacuum of your soul and possess it. That is why people serve Satan without ever knowing it or deciding to, but no one can be a child of God without making a decision to surrender to him. Beware of systems of spirituality which tell you to empty yourself. You will end up filled with something you probably do not want."


This guy is the gift that keeps on giving.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby td11 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 16:17:02

fuck. i need to warn........ my entire family
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Wed Jun 05, 2013 20:32:04

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:I give you the Republican nominee for Lieutenant Governor of Virginia:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/06/virginia-gop-candidate-ew-jackson-yoga-satan/65925/

E.W. Jackson is the Republican candidate for Virginia lieutenant governor, and he's a pretty interesting guy with a lot of opinions. Some of these opinions — especially on gays, like that they are "ikky" ...

Well, his name /is/ EW
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Jun 05, 2013 22:07:47

Having learned last night that one cannot discuss effects of women entering the work force without being sexist, we learn today that discussing the IRS scandal makes you racist!


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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Werthless » Wed Jun 05, 2013 22:22:14

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Describing an objective reality in unoffensive language = sexist as hell?

By implying that a woman belongs in the home and that under no circumstances should a man stay at home, then yes.

But hey, I'm just an ignorant clod who clearly failed to thrive in society due to being raised by a single working mother, so what do I know?

Actually, I think I was given a big advantage by having a stay at home Mom who would give me a lot of attention through my development years. That's what having a parent at home means, in many cases: more attention on average than if one was in daycare, sharing attention with the other kids. As far as hypotheses go, it's not unreasonable, and only offensive if you're offended at the way he said it. And considering that it's women who entered the workforce in larger numbers over the last few decades, that is where the change has been. More women in the workforce, fewer mothers staying at home with their young children.

The actual research is mixed/inconclusive. Here are some that support the hypothesis put forth that is "sexist as hell."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -year.html
The impact also varied dramatically according to class and whether the child was in a single-parent or two-parent household.

Children of middle-class and two-parent families were more likely to be affected negatively than those from working-class or single-parent families, according to the research.

Middle-class and upper-class youngsters suffer if their mothers return to work within their first three years. This was ‘significantly associated with decreases in formal measures of achievement’, it said.


http://www.econ.yale.edu/seminars/labor ... 081031.pdf
[O]n a balance, positive effects are found of spending more time with children’s on breast feeding, child health, reducing behavioral problems and child mortality, and cognitive test scores (Berger, 2005, Ruhm, 2000, 2003).

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Jun 05, 2013 22:28:19

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

Obama's gonna be so pissed at the Obama administration when he reads about this in the newspaper tomorrow.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Wed Jun 05, 2013 22:34:00

You must be so pissed at them doing the things you like

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Wed Jun 05, 2013 22:37:03

Werthless wrote:
The actual research is mixed/inconclusive.


shoulda stopped here
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Wed Jun 05, 2013 22:51:58

Lawrence O'Donnell loves pulling the wings off of flies

He pulled farm bill pirate Stephen Fincher's wings off and squashed him with them this evening
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Werthless » Wed Jun 05, 2013 23:01:01

jerseyhoya wrote:Obama's gonna be so pissed at the Obama administration when he reads about this in the newspaper tomorrow.

Posted already, but funny each time I watch it. This is now two.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-may-14-2013/me-talk-reluctantly-one-day

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Jun 05, 2013 23:43:52

pacino wrote:You must be so pissed at them doing the things you like

I like when people do things I like.

I'm not sure if this is something I like, but leaning no. The government's rationale in why they needed to cast such a broad net for information and how they're using it would matter. It's 'targeted' to some degree, limited to Verizon users, so maybe built off a piece of real intelligence. But seems insanely broad, and it was requested by the FBI, so you really want to know what's being shared and what's being used before saying it's good or bad. If we had some good intelligence that some terror cell was using Verizon somewhere in America and that was one of the only things we knew, I guess this might be helpful. Otherwise, this seems like overkill and, depending on how the info is being used, seriously problematic.

Regardless of my opinion of the action, it's another example of President Obama doing the sort of thing Senator Obama attacked President Bush for.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby PhillieMooDo » Thu Jun 06, 2013 00:56:51

jerseyhoya wrote:
pacino wrote:sounds like bullshit to me. there's nothing that says working parents can't have perfectly terrifically smart kids. both sides of my family have had working women going back to the 40s...somehow we did it. it's just a 'punch the single mom' thing that he realized was too obviously that so he quickly retracted.

I guess I missed where he said it was impossible for children to succeed academically in a household with two working parents.

I'm sure there's work out there on this, and it strikes me that it would be a real mess trying to disentangle all the causal factors, but there being a parent at home with children leading to better education outcomes sounds pretty reasonable.

What if the parent at home is an idiot?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" - Einstein

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Thu Jun 06, 2013 01:07:39

Jon Stewart called Christie corrupt and basically called Buono a joke within 30 seconds :lol:
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby bleh » Thu Jun 06, 2013 02:36:54

Werthless wrote:
RichmondPhilsFan wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Describing an objective reality in unoffensive language = sexist as hell?

By implying that a woman belongs in the home and that under no circumstances should a man stay at home, then yes.

But hey, I'm just an ignorant clod who clearly failed to thrive in society due to being raised by a single working mother, so what do I know?

Actually, I think I was given a big advantage by having a stay at home Mom who would give me a lot of attention through my development years. That's what having a parent at home means, in many cases: more attention on average than if one was in daycare, sharing attention with the other kids. As far as hypotheses go, it's not unreasonable, and only offensive if you're offended at the way he said it. And considering that it's women who entered the workforce in larger numbers over the last few decades, that is where the change has been. More women in the workforce, fewer mothers staying at home with their young children.

The actual research is mixed/inconclusive. Here are some that support the hypothesis put forth that is "sexist as hell."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -year.html
The impact also varied dramatically according to class and whether the child was in a single-parent or two-parent household.

Children of middle-class and two-parent families were more likely to be affected negatively than those from working-class or single-parent families, according to the research.

Middle-class and upper-class youngsters suffer if their mothers return to work within their first three years. This was ‘significantly associated with decreases in formal measures of achievement’, it said.


http://www.econ.yale.edu/seminars/labor ... 081031.pdf
[O]n a balance, positive effects are found of spending more time with children’s on breast feeding, child health, reducing behavioral problems and child mortality, and cognitive test scores (Berger, 2005, Ruhm, 2000, 2003).


If anything the reason there are fewer stay at home moms (or dads) is because of conservative policies. It used to be the father could get a blue collar job and make enough for the whole family. Now the middle class doesn't make enough money to do that.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Jun 06, 2013 02:43:21

Because of conservative policies, of course. Well argued.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Thu Jun 06, 2013 07:21:15

jerseyhoya wrote:
pacino wrote:You must be so pissed at them doing the things you like

I like when people do things I like.

I'm not sure if this is something I like, but leaning no. The government's rationale in why they needed to cast such a broad net for information and how they're using it would matter. It's 'targeted' to some degree, limited to Verizon users, so maybe built off a piece of real intelligence. But seems insanely broad, and it was requested by the FBI, so you really want to know what's being shared and what's being used before saying it's good or bad. If we had some good intelligence that some terror cell was using Verizon somewhere in America and that was one of the only things we knew, I guess this might be helpful. Otherwise, this seems like overkill and, depending on how the info is being used, seriously problematic.

Regardless of my opinion of the action, it's another example of President Obama doing the sort of thing Senator Obama attacked President Bush for.


So pass that last bit along to the party clods like Wretch Prepuce who are forever on about Barry as some kind of muslim socialist mastermind wizard/ogre. Because your "teammates" simply shouldn't try to have it both ways; it's kinda stupid for them to try to do so.

Judging from your specific response about contemporary data analysis here, and that of others on similar topics over the years, it seems like you young folks might benefit from some form of structured education on the possibilities and pitfalls of data security, privacy, etc.

Dried up old farts like myself have some degree of excuse for ignorance, but you with-it hipster doofuses do not. You all sound as well-informed as Joe Scarborough
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