Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed May 15, 2013 02:14:59

Stewart has really gone hard after Obama the last two nights - You’ve Vindicated Conspiracy Theorists

You Can’t Keep Saying You Found Out About News At The Same Time As Us!

Colbert tonight went after Heritage. Timely! Guess someone's still butthurt that his sister lost the election.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Wed May 15, 2013 02:23:48

Sounds like someone is butt hurt Colbert is a liberal.
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed May 15, 2013 02:31:23

Stewart and Colbert are both liberals, but have prided themselves on their willingness to skewer Dems when appropriate. The administration over the past four days has stepped in one pile of dogshit after another, and after laughing off the skeptics on Benghazi last night, Colbert ignored the stories piling up on the administration tonight.

He's not a straight news source and is not pretending to be any such thing. But if he wants to be viewed as an equal opportunity comic, and not a liberal hack, he's doing it wrong.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Wed May 15, 2013 06:38:01

Or he is a comedian with pre-worked skits and bits

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Wed May 15, 2013 10:09:06

i think i get the overall issue with the AP story, and it's not the current legality, it's that it's even legal. we need to roll back this crap and force the DOJ to go to a judge first, instead of just themselves for a say so...so the AP needs to be able to fight that and say that there is no reason for that. it's interesting that the want for an investigation was co-signed by republicans initially, so they have no leg to stand on in being outraged. it's up to the rest of hte media, here. the way the administration has stamped down on Manning was ridiculous, and this sort of does make the AP a 'too hot to touch' org for potential whistleblowers or sources who want anonymity.

it's always great that i have this place to formulate thoughts over the course of time.

not understanding Holder's reasoning behind his recusement (sp.?). seems like a stretch.

the IRS stuff still seems like nothing to me beyond making sure we have a viable government bureaucracy to trust, and Benghazi even less. the one that should be focused on is the AP leak stuff. if anything, the thing to be outraged about by the IRS stuff is that we have made the ability of government to function properly so incredibly impossible by congresspeople purposely TRYING to make it not work and also by stupid court decisions (*cough* citizens united*) that the employees of the place dont even know the rules and policies.
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Wed May 15, 2013 11:03:56

Boehner wants someone jailed on the IRS thing

how about the staffer who suggested you say that

or the Bush appointee who was still part of mgmt when the thing got going

but now that we're getting all investigate-y, let's do it right & really look at all the social-welfare-enhancing things all these at-long-last approved applicants are actually doing with their tax-favored dough
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Wed May 15, 2013 11:06:35

Chaffetz is such a dipshit

reminds me of this guy

Image
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Wed May 15, 2013 11:08:05

won't all the attention on these Republic-dissolving scandals hold up the critical 37th House vote on ACA repeal?

I mean, dammit, who's running the damn gummunt around here
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Wed May 15, 2013 11:26:56

down down the deficit goes, where it stops, nobody knows (except these guys):
CBO’s estimate of the deficit for this year is about $200 billion below the estimate that it produced in February 2013, mostly as a result of higher-than-expected revenues and an increase in payments to the Treasury by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. For the 2014–2023 period, CBO now projects a cumulative deficit that is $618 billion less than it projected in February. That reduction results mostly from lower projections of spending for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and interest on the public debt.
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Wed May 15, 2013 11:34:06

thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Werthless » Wed May 15, 2013 11:58:50

pacino wrote:down down the deficit goes, where it stops, nobody knows (except these guys):
CBO’s estimate of the deficit for this year is about $200 billion below the estimate that it produced in February 2013, mostly as a result of higher-than-expected revenues and an increase in payments to the Treasury by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. For the 2014–2023 period, CBO now projects a cumulative deficit that is $618 billion less than it projected in February. That reduction results mostly from lower projections of spending for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and interest on the public debt.

Great news, although a lot of the increased revenue is temporary, caused by people/companies accelerating income before the tax increases took effect.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Werthless » Wed May 15, 2013 12:15:46

Phan In Phlorida wrote:The IRS threatened to revoke the tax-exempt status of All Saints Episcopal (Pasadena CA) over an anti-Iraq War sermon the Sunday before the 2004 election, while conservative churches across the country were helping to mobilize voters for Bush without a peep from the IRS.

In 2004, the IRS went after the NAACP after its chairman criticized President Bush for being the first sitting president since Herbert Hoover not to address the organization.

In 2003, Public Interest Watch (a watch group that one year received 97% of its funding from Exxon Mobile) got the IRS to investigate and threaten to revoke the tax-exempt status of Greenpeace after Greenpeace had labeled Exxon Mobil the "No. 1 climate criminal."

People who didn't get rankled by this bullshit then have no right to get their panties in a bunch now and not have their indignation labeled partisan. It "ain't right", no matter which side does it, but to accept one and be infuriated by the other is the height of hypocrisy.

Yes, it goes back much farther than that. JFK, Nixon, FDR... all were pretty aggressive in encouraging the IRS to go after political opponents.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ding_now_2

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Werthless » Wed May 15, 2013 12:42:48


I read the audit, and I don't understand why you posted this picture. Is this to suggest that the impact was small?

They admit that there were 4 criteria they used to trigger these political audits. From your link, these were:
1. “Tea Party,” “Patriots” or “9/12 Project” is referenced in the case file
2. Issues include government spending, government debt or taxes
3. Education of the public by advocacy/lobbying to “make America a better place to live”
4. Statement in the case file criticize how the country is being run

Your graph points to the Director's argument, not the auditor's finding. From your link, a description of the picture you posted.
To determine if organizations other than those specifically identified in the inappropriate criteria were processed by the team of specialists, we reviewed the names on all applications identified as potential political cases.
Figure 4 shows that approximately one-third of the applications identified for processing by the team of specialists included Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names, while the remainder did not. According to the Director, Rulings and Agreements, the fact that the team of specialists worked applications that did not involve the Tea Party, Patriots,or 9/12 groups demonstrated that the IRS was not politically biased in its identification of applications for processing by the team of specialists.

That's not evidence of lack of bias; that just means that 1/4 of the triggers were name based, and 3/4 of the triggers were due to the other 3 criteria.

The fact that 96 of the 96 organizations with Tea Party, 9/12, or Patriots were audited, independent of their adherence to the specifications of section 501(c)(4), is clear evidence of bias. From your link:
While the team of specialists reviewed applications from a variety of organizations, we determined during our reviews of statistical samples of I.R.C. § 501(c)(4) tax-exempt applications that all cases with Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names were forwarded to the team of specialists.


Other juicy parts of your link:

[I]nappropriate criteria remained in place for more than 18 months. Determinations Unit employees also did not consider the public perception of using politically sensitive criteria when identifying these cases.Lastly, the criteria developed showed a lack of knowledge in the Determinations Unit of what activities are allowed by I.R.C. § 501(c)(3) and I.R.C. § 501(c)(4) organizations.

They didn't change the criteria appropriately when initially told to, they didn't consider whether the public would think what they were doing could blow up in their face and damage the credibility of the organization, and they didnt even know the law that they were tasked with enforcing.

It makes you really want to fight against their furloughs, doesn't it?

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Werthless » Wed May 15, 2013 12:44:46


Yeah, you should probably support the North Carolina and Texas Democratic parties.

(I saw that and think it's absolutely ridiculous. This is just my way of saying that free marketers should probably still vote R in those states.)

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Wed May 15, 2013 14:38:03

Werthless wrote:

I read the audit, and I don't understand why you posted this picture. Is this to suggest that the impact was small?

They admit that there were 4 criteria they used to trigger these political audits. From your link, these were:
1. “Tea Party,” “Patriots” or “9/12 Project” is referenced in the case file
2. Issues include government spending, government debt or taxes
3. Education of the public by advocacy/lobbying to “make America a better place to live”
4. Statement in the case file criticize how the country is being run

Your graph points to the Director's argument, not the auditor's finding. From your link, a description of the picture you posted.
To determine if organizations other than those specifically identified in the inappropriate criteria were processed by the team of specialists, we reviewed the names on all applications identified as potential political cases.
Figure 4 shows that approximately one-third of the applications identified for processing by the team of specialists included Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names, while the remainder did not. According to the Director, Rulings and Agreements, the fact that the team of specialists worked applications that did not involve the Tea Party, Patriots,or 9/12 groups demonstrated that the IRS was not politically biased in its identification of applications for processing by the team of specialists.

That's not evidence of lack of bias; that just means that 1/4 of the triggers were name based, and 3/4 of the triggers were due to the other 3 criteria.

The fact that 96 of the 96 organizations with Tea Party, 9/12, or Patriots were audited, independent of their adherence to the specifications of section 501(c)(4), is clear evidence of bias. From your link:
While the team of specialists reviewed applications from a variety of organizations, we determined during our reviews of statistical samples of I.R.C. § 501(c)(4) tax-exempt applications that all cases with Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names were forwarded to the team of specialists.


Other juicy parts of your link:

[I]nappropriate criteria remained in place for more than 18 months. Determinations Unit employees also did not consider the public perception of using politically sensitive criteria when identifying these cases.Lastly, the criteria developed showed a lack of knowledge in the Determinations Unit of what activities are allowed by I.R.C. § 501(c)(3) and I.R.C. § 501(c)(4) organizations.

They didn't change the criteria appropriately when initially told to, they didn't consider whether the public would think what they were doing could blow up in their face and damage the credibility of the organization, and they didnt even know the law that they were tasked with enforcing.

It makes you really want to fight against their furloughs, doesn't it?

I posted the corresponding picture because it was with the article.

And yes, it does still make me want the irs to be proerluy staffed. Makes me want to hire more people, actually.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed May 15, 2013 14:45:00

Kelly O'Donnell ‏@KellyO
AG Holder says he did not inform WH he recused himself in @AP case, did not do so in writing and cannot say when he did so.

Wtf. He didn't recuse himself in writing and doesn't know when he recused himself?

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed May 15, 2013 15:31:57

Media Matters for America, a group that monitors the country’s conservative media for distortions and inaccuracies, fell in for criticism today over the Justice Department’s secret subpoena of the Associated Press’s phone records. As articulated by the Daily Caller:

Media Matters has weighed in on the news that the Justice Department secretly seized extensive phone records from the Associated Press, and the left-wing advocacy group is siding with the government

....

So, Media Matters for America, what do you have to say about this? After we put that question to the watchdog group, we got this statement saying, in effect: That’s not us. From David Brock, Chair of Media Matters for America and Media Matters Action Network:

Media Matters for America monitors, analyzes, and corrects conservative misinformation in the media and was not involved with the production of the document focusing on the DOJs investigation. That document was issued by “Message Matters,” a project of the Media Matters Action Network, which posts, through a different editorial process and to a different website, a wide range of potential messaging products for progressive talkers to win public debates with conservatives.

As a media watchdog organization, Media Matters for America recognizes that a free press is necessary for quality journalism and essential to our democracy. A healthy news media is what we fight for every day. Yesterday, 52 news organizations signed a letter to the Department of Justice expressing concerns that the DOJ’s broad subpoena of Associated Press reporters’ phone records runs counter to First Amendment principles and injures the practice of journalism. We stand with those news organizations and share their concerns.

That's pretty good stuff. Dude is chair of both groups. One puts out some talking points defending the action, while the other half is saying it supports the media organizations.

It's hard to be a hack sometimes.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Wed May 15, 2013 15:49:39

jerseyhoya wrote:
Kelly O'Donnell ‏@KellyO
AG Holder says he did not inform WH he recused himself in @AP case, did not do so in writing and cannot say when he did so.

Wtf. He didn't recuse himself in writing and doesn't know when he recused himself?

Inexcusable for an attorney. That right there is enough to demand a resignation.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Wed May 15, 2013 16:21:57

Holder is terrible. Not sure what else has to be said.

As for Brock, Media Matters does lots of good stuff, but his entire thing has been latching onto one side or the other (a la Huffington and a host of others who are now 'liberal'). He's just less disgusting now that he's not going after Clinton from the right. being on the Democratic side is not the same as being either liberal or on the good-government, keep politics out of policy side. it's jut those people tend to clump up on the left.
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