hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby td11 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 13:43:04

Ari Shapiro @Ari_Shapiro
Romney aide Stuart Stevens says "I agree" that Romney bio video blurs line b/t storm relief & politicking. "I don't know how it happened"

again, pres suspended his campaign and all donation efforts have been going to red cross since monday.
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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby CalvinBall » Tue Oct 30, 2012 13:43:47

td11 wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Only Barack Obama is allowed to mislead people about his opponent's stance on auto industry issues! How appalling by Romney! Didn't he know that?!


chrysler itself is reaming romney, it's misleading to call it just "misleading." it's an outright, blatant and 100% lie


Yeah, what are you talking about?

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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby Werthless » Tue Oct 30, 2012 13:46:27

td11 wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Only Barack Obama is allowed to mislead people about his opponent's stance on auto industry issues! How appalling by Romney! Didn't he know that?!


chrysler itself is reaming romney, it's misleading to call it just "misleading." it's an outright, blatant and 100% lie

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/2 ... -China-lie

[President Obama] sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China. Mitt Romney will fight for every American job.

Jeep is planning to open a Chinese factory. Fact. Mitt Romney will fight for every American job. Political puff. The ad/statement is misleading in the sense that Chrysler is ramping up Jeep production in the US. The Chinese factory would be for vehicles sold in China. The misleading part is putting those two statements together, and letting people jump to the erroneous conclusion that Jeep jobs will be lost in the US. td, what is the outright, blatant, 100% lie from this ad?

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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby td11 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 13:51:23

jeep is not moving production of cars to china for the US market. cars for the US market will still be built here. did you read the letter that chrysler's own GM wrote? the ad's implication is clearly that chrysler is moving all production to china, if you don't see that i really don't know what to say. not only that but the romney campaign just put a new ad out

"Barack Obama says he saved the auto industry. But for who? Ohio or China? Under President Obama, GM cut 15,000 American jobs, but they are planning to double the number of cars built in China which means 15,000 more jobs for China. And now comes word that Chrysler is starting to build cars in, you guessed it, China. What happened to the promises made to autoworkers in Toledo and throughout Ohio? The same hard-working men and women who were told that Obama’s auto bailout would help them. Mitt Romney grew up in the Auto Industry. Maybe that’s why the Detroit News endorsed him saying ‘Romney understands the industry and will shield it from regulators who never tire of churning out new layers of mandates. Mitt Romney – he’ll stand up for the auto industry. In Ohio, not China."


ohio is not losing any jobs over this and to suggest so, which the ad clearly does imo, is a blatant lie
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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Oct 30, 2012 13:51:57

td11 wrote:again, pres suspended his campaign and all donation efforts have been going to red cross since monday.

Because he is the president and wants to be seen as coordinating things

Romney shouldn't have suspended the campaign at all. Just go camp out in Colorado and Iowa for a few days.

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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby CalvinBall » Tue Oct 30, 2012 13:53:40

Worthless knock it off

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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby pacino » Tue Oct 30, 2012 13:53:44

chrysler is expanding its reach in china. they want chinese cars built in china for chinese people. why even mention it,if not to erroneously imply that somehow these are jobs that americans are losing????
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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby Werthless » Tue Oct 30, 2012 13:56:40

td11 wrote:jeep is not moving production of cars to china for the US market. cars for the US market will still be built here. did you read the letter that chrysler's own GM wrote? the ad's implication is clearly that chrysler is moving all production to china, if you don't see that i really don't know what to say. not only that but the romney campaign just put a new ad out

"Barack Obama says he saved the auto industry. But for who? Ohio or China? Under President Obama, GM cut 15,000 American jobs, but they are planning to double the number of cars built in China which means 15,000 more jobs for China. And now comes word that Chrysler is starting to build cars in, you guessed it, China. What happened to the promises made to autoworkers in Toledo and throughout Ohio? The same hard-working men and women who were told that Obama’s auto bailout would help them. Mitt Romney grew up in the Auto Industry. Maybe that’s why the Detroit News endorsed him saying ‘Romney understands the industry and will shield it from regulators who never tire of churning out new layers of mandates. Mitt Romney – he’ll stand up for the auto industry. In Ohio, not China."


ohio is not losing any jobs over this and to suggest so, which the ad clearly does imo, is a blatant lie

Please highlight the lie, in bold. I can't see the 100% outright, boldfaced lie that you're alluding to.

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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby pacino » Tue Oct 30, 2012 13:57:50

oh jesus christ
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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby Werthless » Tue Oct 30, 2012 13:58:01

pacino wrote:chrysler is expanding its reach in china. they want chinese cars built in china for chinese people. why even mention it,if not to erroneously imply that somehow these are jobs that americans are losing????

Why mention that Chrysler is expanding abroad? Maybe for the same reason that the President brought up at the debate the investments in China within Romney's blind trust.

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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby phdave » Tue Oct 30, 2012 14:00:12

pacino wrote:chrysler is expanding its reach in china. they want chinese cars built in china for chinese people. why even mention it,if not to erroneously imply that somehow these are jobs that americans are losing????


I wish people would not be so cynical. Romney clearly is praising Obama for helping Chrysler so much that they are expanding production into Asia. Why would anyone just assume that Romney would state a fact in a misleading way in a political ad against his opponent? He was probably just trying to score points with the undecided voters who vote for the most complimentary candidate.
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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby Werthless » Tue Oct 30, 2012 14:01:09

CalvinBall wrote:Worthless knock it off

Ads are political spin, trying to frame complex issues in 30 second sound bites. These ads, which I expected to be full of lies, do not contain a single identifable lie. It's an ad just like every other ad about one's opponent's positions.I dont see why you guys are riled up. I assume it's frustration at being unable to point out the explicit lie when called out.

Getting upset over political spin in a campaign ad is really weird, you guys.

Edit: Back to work for me!

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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby td11 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 14:03:36

Werthless wrote:
td11 wrote:jeep is not moving production of cars to china for the US market. cars for the US market will still be built here. did you read the letter that chrysler's own GM wrote? the ad's implication is clearly that chrysler is moving all production to china, if you don't see that i really don't know what to say. not only that but the romney campaign just put a new ad out

"Barack Obama says he saved the auto industry. But for who? Ohio or China? Under President Obama, GM cut 15,000 American jobs, but they are planning to double the number of cars built in China which means 15,000 more jobs for China. And now comes word that Chrysler is starting to build cars in, you guessed it, China. What happened to the promises made to autoworkers in Toledo and throughout Ohio? The same hard-working men and women who were told that Obama’s auto bailout would help them. Mitt Romney grew up in the Auto Industry. Maybe that’s why the Detroit News endorsed him saying ‘Romney understands the industry and will shield it from regulators who never tire of churning out new layers of mandates. Mitt Romney – he’ll stand up for the auto industry. In Ohio, not China."


ohio is not losing any jobs over this and to suggest so, which the ad clearly does imo, is a blatant lie

Please highlight the lie, in bold. I can't see the 100% outright, boldfaced lie that you're alluding to.


this is my last post on the issue

the president did keep those promises and his bailout did help millions of autoworkers keep their jobs, including people in ohio-- even the heads of the automakers agree on that
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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby dajafi » Tue Oct 30, 2012 14:04:43

There's nothing more sophisticated and worldly than calling everyone a liar and then patting yourself on the back for seeing the cleverness of your side's lies.

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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby pacino » Tue Oct 30, 2012 14:07:59

mitt romney's budget proposal would cut FEMA to 1.8 billion from 13 billion.
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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Oct 30, 2012 14:08:52

dajafi wrote:There's nothing more sophisticated and worldly than calling everyone a liar and then patting yourself on the back for seeing the cleverness of your side's lies.

The centerpiece of the Obama campaign's messaging against Romney on auto bailout issues for the entire campaign has been an oped headline written by the New York Times.

Everyone in campaigns misleads, stretches the truth, cherry picks facts, etc. Don't think that's a sophisticated or worldly position. I don't really think Romney's ad is all that clever or worth the blowback. It does fit very comfortably within the overall tenor of the campaign, and especially well within the auto bailout discussion, which has been noteworthy for its spin/lack of facts from both sides the whole time.

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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby pacino » Tue Oct 30, 2012 14:09:53

Mitt's useless 'storm relief':

Today, we got a look at Romney’s charity in action, when he held an event that he swears was not a campaign rally in Ohio aimed at “storm relief” (the choice of a song with the lyrics “Knee deep in the water somewhere” was perhaps ill advised). The Romney campaign encouraged attendees to bring canned goods, clothes, and other items to be sent to Hurricane victims. “We have a lot of goods here…that these people will need,” Romney said in his brief remarks. “We’re going to box them up, then send them into to New Jersey.”

This undoubtedly comes from a good place and with good intentions, but is hardly a substitute for the relief efforts — in fact, it may actually hinder them. The Red Cross, for which Romney is soliciting donations, doesn’t even accept goods. “Unfortunately, due to logistical constraints the Red Cross does not accept or solicit individual donations or collections of items. Items such as collected food, used clothing and shoes must be sorted, cleaned, repackaged and transported which impedes the valuable resources of money, time, and personnel,” the NGO’s website explains. With financial donations, they can buy exactly what is needed closer to the site, and it helps stimulate the local economy in the process.
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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby CalvinBall » Tue Oct 30, 2012 14:12:41

worthless trolling hard my god

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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby dajafi » Tue Oct 30, 2012 14:13:45

Here's another way to think about this election: which candidate has been clearer about what he'll do in office?

Obama hasn't said it often or loudly enough, but the Des Moines Register interview last week had no surprises or diversions from what's on his record. Even Brooks, who's obviously supporting Romney, calls the president's agenda moderate and sensible. (He just doesn't think he can implement it, presumably because the congressional Rs hate him so much, and for some reason considers this a good reason to empower them and reward their crazed intransigence. Given his intellectual pretensions, it sort of surprises me that Brooks doesn't seem to understand game theory very well.)

Romney, by contrast, hasn't really said what he'll do. He wants to repeal Obamacare except for the parts he likes. He wants a 20 percent across-the-board rate cut with loophole closures through which nobody will pay any more tax but somehow the treasury will have as much or more revenue. The only way to reconcile this is through aggregate growth, but he won't say that because it then becomes perfectly clear that he's praying at that same old supply side voodoo shrine. Severely conservative? Mainly moderate? Unimpeded access to contraception? Support of the Blunt Amendment? He's not telling, and he might not actually know.

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Re: hardcore BATTLESHIP... the POLITICS thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Oct 30, 2012 14:13:49

pacino wrote:mitt romney's budget proposal would cut FEMA to 1.8 billion from 13 billion.

Just so we're clear...Mitt Romney (like any other Presidential candidate) doesn't actually have a detailed federal budget proposal, so any statement like this is hackery of the first order.

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