Monkeyboy wrote:When does the life begin, when the DNA is assembled, beginning the road to birth, or is it at birth when the first breaths are taken? Or is it at the end of the 2nd trimester or the 1st (I hate the trimester arguments because they make the least sense of all). I don't know the answer, but I do know that science hasn't decided anything on the issue.

My problem with the pro-life argument is that these people don't care much about the child once it is born, which is a time we should all be able to agree is a time when a child is alive and needing our help. These people want to control a woman's body, not just when she is having an abortion, but when she is doing anything else with it that they think goes against God's will or their own particular belief system. And so the battle line is drawn at abortion because that's where we sit at the moment. If abortion was illegal, the hyper conservatives would be fighting to keep women off birth control or some other line that's been drawn by them to fit their agenda.

Personally, I would gladly trade abortion for all the other things being blocked by the child haters. But that's, like, just my opinion, man.

Full disclosure: I used to be 100% pro-choice, but after spending a few years researching neural development and whatnot, I find myself firmly on the fence.

mozartpc27 wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:When does the life begin, when the DNA is assembled, beginning the road to birth, or is it at birth when the first breaths are taken? Or is it at the end of the 2nd trimester or the 1st (I hate the trimester arguments because they make the least sense of all). I don't know the answer, but I do know that science hasn't decided anything on the issue.

My problem with the pro-life argument is that these people don't care much about the child once it is born, which is a time we should all be able to agree is a time when a child is alive and needing our help. These people want to control a woman's body, not just when she is having an abortion, but when she is doing anything else with it that they think goes against God's will or their own particular belief system. And so the battle line is drawn at abortion because that's where we sit at the moment. If abortion was illegal, the hyper conservatives would be fighting to keep women off birth control or some other line that's been drawn by them to fit their agenda.

Personally, I would gladly trade abortion for all the other things being blocked by the child haters. But that's, like, just my opinion, man.

Full disclosure: I used to be 100% pro-choice, but after spending a few years researching neural development and whatnot, I find myself firmly on the fence.

It's must be my Catholic upbringing, but I agree: I would trade abortion for single-payer health care and other safety net measures that would help support all this new population in a heartbeat. Frankly I wish the Dems had the guts to make that offer to Republicans - make them quite literally put their money where their mouths are, or else shut up about it forever.

Werthless wrote:

dajafi wrote:How about this: we can outlaw abortion, but every man who impregnates a woman who'd prefer not to have the child must undergo vasectomy and/or make a two-decade financial commitment to the child. Skin in the game, so to speak.

Werthless wrote:

pacino wrote:there is no legal argument that there is a human life there. there is no scientific argument that there is a human life. there is purely a spiritual one. good luck bringing up spiritual arguments in court.

Actually, the Supreme Court said in Roe v Wade that the state has a legitimate interest in protecting prenatal life.

jerseyhoya wrote:Turkey bombing Syria in retaliation for mortar shelling

Might have to go to war in Syria soon

The Nightman Cometh wrote:Turkey taking over the Syria problem would be nice. Having regional allies police their region is preferable to us policing the world.

jerseyhoya wrote:

The Nightman Cometh wrote:Turkey taking over the Syria problem would be nice. Having regional allies police their region is preferable to us policing the world.

Depends how it unfolds and if Turkey asks for our help. If it escalates, you can bet we'll be involved.