Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby Wolfgang622 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 15:59:52

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:There is nothing, either historically or in modern times, to suggest that the Republican Party would support a labor union strike.


Image

Both parties used to be much better about respcting labor.

But in general I agree with your Richmond.
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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Tue Sep 25, 2012 16:09:23

Look at the 6th bullet in that list. The Republican Party has always resented the concept of strikes.

And although I agree that the GOP used to be (somewhat) better, here's what you get now on LABOR Day:

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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Sep 25, 2012 16:12:22

Roger Dorn wrote:http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20120925_N_J__senator_wants_to_ban_replacement_refs.html

New Jersey state senator ready to introduce legislation banning replacement refs for professional sports played in New Jersey. Refs must have screwed up his fantasy team.

NEW JERSEY!


Gloucester county Democrat--worried about Vick getting killed? Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if some Wisconsin legislator introduces copy legislation soon.
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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Sep 25, 2012 16:58:37

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
RichmondPhilsFan wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
Eddie Jordan wrote:It's a little humorous because the NFL situation boils down to ultra rich white guys similar to Mitt Romney unwilling to share a piece of their mutlibillion dollar pie that's hurting the overall product.

It's a private sector union locked out and not giving into the unreasonable demands of management. The workers are showing their value added, and that they truly deserve what they're asking for. Nothing wrong with what the refs are doing according to the GOP. The reason ownership has gotten away with it as long as they have is the NFL is for all practical purposes a monopoly. In any normal industry, with the labor lockout hurting the company's brand so badly, management would have settled weeks ago.

Please point to an example of a GOP politician supporting a union strike within the past decade.

For the most part I don't think politicians should intervene or comment on labor disputes unless they directly affect the functioning of government or national security type things. I can't really think of too many (any) instances of GOP politicians weighing in on either side of a strike involving private sector unions since I started paying attention to politics. Google tells me GWB invoked Taft-Hartley in 2002 to end a lockout of a longshoremen union on the West Coast, and they subsequently did well for themselves when they came to an agreement on a new contract.

Are you serious? Taft-Hartley is NAMED after two Republicans and was only passed after Truman's veto. And that was during a time when there were still extraordinary injustices in the workforce (not that there aren't still, but it was on an entirely different scale in the 1940s--no OSHA, no equal pay protection, no minimum wage, etc.).

There is nothing, either historically or in modern times, to suggest that the Republican Party would support a labor union strike.

I said there was nothing wrong with what the refs are doing according to the GOP. They want to be better compensated for their job, and ownership has locked them out. Events have demonstrated the refs provide a valuable service to their employer. I am not arguing the Republican Party would (or should) explicitly support them against ownership. There is a big difference between being fine with the actions of a third party and explicitly supporting them. Labor disputes between two private entities should for the most part be up to the private entities to settle.

You asked when the last time a GOP politician supported a labor union in a strike. Despite it not being particularly relevant to my point, I did a bit of googling trying to find a Republican politician weighing in on one side or another in a labor dispute. The bit about Bush and the longshoremen came up. It didn't seem like he took either side, but it was a direct intervention between two private parties by a GOP politician so I noted it. There are probably other recent cases where Republicans complained about a strike happening, and maybe some good ones where Republicans actively took anti-labor positions during strikes. They were not among the things that popped up in my brief Internet quest.

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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Tue Sep 25, 2012 17:06:54

Fair enough, but saying that my question isn't "particularly relevant" to your point is silly. You claimed that the GOP would say that there's nothing wrong with what the refs are doing (lockout or strike, it's essentially the same thing). My point is that history seems to contradict your statement, so I asked for evidence to the contrary.

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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby Wolfgang622 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 17:21:14

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:Fair enough, but saying that my question isn't "particularly relevant" to your point is silly. You claimed that the GOP would say that there's nothing wrong with what the refs are doing (lockout or strike, it's essentially the same thing). My point is that history seems to contradict your statement, so I asked for evidence to the contrary.


What are the refs "doing"? They've been locked out. They're not doing anything.
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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Tue Sep 25, 2012 17:26:49

I'm sorry JH, but you're being naive. The vast, vast majority of Republicans aren't "fine" with unions' exercising their rights through work stoppages or otherwise. They do everything within their power to cut unions' legs out from under them, whether procedurally or substantively or by simply trying to break a union.

The instance I posted earlier about House republicans' attempt at creating procedural hurdles is but one example. Other examples are legion, whether it's the Wisconsin situation or going back as far as possible. In terms of the modern Republican Party (i.e., post-Rockefeller Republicans) Reagan's breaking of the Air Traffic Controllers Union was the stake in the ground from which the Republicans have operated ever since.

Of course, it was set almost 100 years ago, but if you want too see a good example of my experience with Republicans' attitudes (if not actions) towards unions, just watch John Sayles movie "Matewan." Having grown up in the coal mining regions of Schuylkill County, I can tell you that the anti-union sentiment towards coal miners is not exaggerated. (In fact, if you want a close-to-historic portrayal of what coal miners faced before unions, I recommend the Sean Connery/Richard Harris movie, "The Molly Maguires," which is based on a true story of what happened in Schuylkill County in the 19th century).

Again, the movies were set in a time many years ago. But, at least in my experience, the position and tactics of the overwhelming majority of Republicans these days may have been cleaned up a bit for public consumption, but the underlying attitude hasn't changed much at all.
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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Sep 25, 2012 17:56:48

JFLNYC wrote:I'm sorry JH, but you're being naive. The vast, vast majority of Republicans aren't "fine" with unions' exercising their rights through work stoppages or otherwise. They do everything within their power to cut unions' legs out from under them, whether procedurally or substantively or by simply trying to break a union.

The instance I posted earlier about House republicans' attempt at creating procedural hurdles is but one example. Other examples are legion, whether it's the Wisconsin situation or going back as far as possible. In terms of the modern Republican Party (i.e., post-Rockefeller Republicans) Reagan's breaking of the Air Traffic Controllers Union was the stake in the ground from which the Republicans have operated ever since.

Of course, it was set almost 100 years ago, but if you want too see a good example of my experience with Republicans' attitudes (if not actions) towards unions, just watch John Sayles movie "Matewan." Having grown up in the coal mining regions of Schuylkill County, I can tell you that the anti-union sentiment towards coal miners is not exaggerated. (In fact, if you want a close-to-historic portrayal of what coal miners faced before unions, I recommend the Sean Connery/Richard Harris movie, "The Molly Maguires," which is based on a true story of what happened in Schuylkill County in the 19th century).

Again, the movies were set in a time many years ago. But, at least in my experience, the position and tactics of the overwhelming majority of Republicans these days may have been cleaned up a bit for public consumption, but the underlying attitude hasn't changed much at all.

Your big examples - Wisconsin and the Air Traffic Controllers Union - are public sector unions. Government must have a different approach to public sector unions as opposed to private sector ones, since in the public sector union relationship, government is the adversary of the union. This is not the case with private sector workers.

As St. Ronnie said during his speech announcing he would fire all of the air traffic controllers if they didn't report back to work within 48 hours: "Let me make one thing plain. I respect the right of workers in the private sector to strike. Indeed, as president of my own union, I led the first strike ever called by that union. I guess I'm maybe the first one to ever hold this office who is a lifetime member of an AFL-CIO union. But we cannot compare labor-management relations in the private sector with government. Government cannot close down the assembly line. It has to provide without interruption the protective services which are government's reason for being."

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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Tue Sep 25, 2012 18:03:41

How in heaven's name does the difference between public and private sector unions tell us anything about Republicans' attitudes towards unions in general?
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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Sep 25, 2012 18:13:47

JFLNYC wrote:How in heaven's name does the difference between public and private sector unions tell us anything about Republicans' attitudes towards unions in general?

What

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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Tue Sep 25, 2012 18:18:00

why scott brown probably shouldn't base his entire campaign on race

but, well he is:

thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Tue Sep 25, 2012 18:18:16

Much as I thought.
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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby Eddie Jordan » Tue Sep 25, 2012 22:30:13

Here you can see Brown's staffers making "war whoops" and "tomahawk chops", presumably in reference to Warren's Cherokee heritage. Identified in video making the chop are Brown's Constituent Service Counsel Jack Richard (camoflage shirt) and -- we believe -- Massachusetts GOP operative Brad Garrett, front and center with tan baseball cap and gray hoodie, leading the whoops and chops.


that's never good...
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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby Doll Is Mine » Tue Sep 25, 2012 22:32:55

#TheStench

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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby td11 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 23:54:42

Doll Is Mine wrote:#TheStench


Though Ryan had already decided to distance himself from the floundering Romney campaign, he now feels totally uninhibited. Reportedly, he has been marching around his campaign bus, saying things like, “If Stench calls, take a message” and “Tell Stench I’m having finger sandwiches with Peggy Noonan and will text him later.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/09 ... z27XpM4DQO
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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Sep 26, 2012 00:01:11

Breaking free for Ryan means using Power Point? What kind of douche uses Power Point as a campaign tool?
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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Wed Sep 26, 2012 00:04:39

Yeah, I believe hardly anything from that article.
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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby Doll Is Mine » Wed Sep 26, 2012 00:10:57

The Nightman Cometh wrote:Yeah, I believe hardly anything from that article.


Roger Simon isn't exactly the type to embellish.

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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby td11 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 00:52:21

Image

what that is is a terrible sentence

LEADERSHIP IN THE
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Re: Don't Fact Check Me, Bro: The Politics Thread

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Wed Sep 26, 2012 02:54:56

The Nightman Cometh wrote:Yeah, I believe hardly anything from that article.

No, this excerpt is, in fact, 100% true...

PowerPoint was released by Microsoft in 1990 as a way to euthanize cattle using a method less cruel than hitting them over the head with iron mallets. After PETA successfully argued in court that PowerPoint actually was more cruel than iron mallets, the program was adopted by corporations for slide show presentations.
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

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