jeff2sf wrote:

The Nightman Cometh wrote:And then do you have to prove your poor if they do waive the fee? How? If you are poor is spending time and money to get to the DMV really a good use of your limited resources?

How the fuck else is an elderly person, who is somehow able to make it to a polling place as opposed to shut ins, spending their day? They aren't working 40 hours a week.

According to this article there are 1687 polling places in Philadelphia. According to the DMV website there are 23 DMVs. I'm not sure if that also counts Photo-only places but still the difference is clear.

It's not just the elderly that people are saying might be affected. People that actually DO work 40+ hours a week might not think something like this is worth taking time off if money is really tight.

It's also much easier to shuttle people or people to take time off on one nationally important day (Election day) rather than whenever is convenient for them for something that on it's own is basically worthless more than 99% of days.

But you bring up a good point. Maybe there should be an expansion of places people can get IDs. Maybe have temporary booths at retirement homes/libraries/rec centers/churches etc. Wish the people that made this law would have come up with something like that rather than just throwing the law together.

Yes and I recognize that I'm on the side of the devil here and that the intentions are not pure.

But I am going to punch a puppy the next time I hear the complaint that there is no current fraud being perpetrated.

Just because there's been no crime in my neighborhood doesn't mean I should leave the door unlocked and wide open.

I get that, but I also think the lack of documented fraud makes it all the more odd that the law has been pushed through half-baked, which just lends more credence to the fact that this is more about one side thinking they can rig the rules in their favor.

Is there evidence that this year has the potential for a lot of voter fraud? If not, why not wait until we have a plan that limits worries of fraud while we're also confident we aren't limiting the voting rights of a ton of people in the most important year of a 4 year cycle?

Fraud by individual voters is an irrational concern. It would require a massive effort beyond reasonable immagination to have any effect on an election... an actual tin-foil hat conspiracy. Voting "irregularities" are almost always honest mistakes by polling place staff and are either rectified or insignificant. The few reported instances of "individual voter fraud" (voting multiple times, dead people voting, etc.) have either been proven false or were in conjunction with election misconduct by officials. Election fraud/misconduct doesn't occur in the booth, it occurs either before or after the booth... "misplaced" and "lost" ballots, etc. If you want to focus on voter fraud, the focus should be on election officials, missing ballot boxes, machines rigged to tally improperly, etc.

pacino wrote:13.50 for your first one

So, as I've argued all along, the law is tantamount to a poll tax, which is DEFINITELY illegal.

I have a rock in my yard that prevents tiger attacks. It has a 100% success rate. If you send me $20, I'll send you a tiger attack prevention rock. Think of the Children! Paypal is fitlastic@juno.com.

Also, not to go all Diebold! on everyone, the real threat to the electoral process is the total lack of security around voting booths, making possible all kinds of tampering.

https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/tag/voting/

You can open a Diebold voting booth with an honor bar key.

mozartpc27 wrote:

pacino wrote:13.50 for your first one

So, as I've argued all along, the law is tantamount to a poll tax, which is DEFINITELY illegal.

As far as I am aware, that 13.50 ID is not necessary for the election.

A photo ID from an accredited PA college or university that is valid (not beyond the expiration date) can be used at the polls. But if there is no expiration date on this photo ID, and you want to vote at your PA college address (rather than at your home address), you can apply to PennDOT for a photo ID by submitting paperwork showing your dorm room assignment and a bill with your dorm room address as one proof of residency. A bank statement or paystub with your dorm address can serve as a second proof of residency.

That's a big problem for me. What used to be fine as ID is now not fine as ID. And they are implementing it right before the 2012 election. It's unjust, and the way it has been presented to me while at work on the campaign, unconstitutional. The guy I am working for clerked for the PA Supreme Court and is currently an attorney and is pretty positive it's going to be struck down before November.

jeff2sf wrote:

drsmooth in August 2001 wrote:jeff, there's no planes crashing into towers. What don't you get about this?

water is wet, jeff is obtuse, etc

when pat toomey is the center of your party, you're a little too right-wing

Phan In Phlorida wrote:OHH.. EHM.. GEE!

This is a political take-off of Joaquin Phoenix's performance art from two years ago, right? Goodness, at least Sarah Palin had the good sense to serve on the PTA before running for higher office.

traderdave wrote:

Phan In Phlorida wrote:OHH.. EHM.. GEE!

This is a political take-off of Joaquin Phoenix's performance art from two years ago, right? Goodness, at least Sarah Palin had the good sense to serve on the PTA before running for higher office.

You gentlemen are clearly unacquainted with the milieu of the New York State Senate's NYC delegation. She'll fit right in. And PTA service WILL be a higher office for her to shoot for from there.

TenuredVulture wrote:I have a rock in my yard that prevents tiger attacks. It has a 100% success rate. If you send me $20, I'll send you a tiger attack prevention rock. Think of the Children! Paypal is fitlastic@juno.com.

I always wanted a tiger. One I could train to do my bidding. Tony is too cliché, so maybe I'd name him Jimmy. I imagine it'll be expensive to feed him though. Perhaps I could feed him hobos.

welp, six years after Congress decided they want to make the USPS go bankrupt, they're about to default on a $5 billion dollar payment in August to fund their pension system. Their pension system that has to be funded by 2022. Funded for the NEXT 75 years' worth of workers. This means they have to fund, in the next six years, full defined benefit retirement accounts for workers not even born yet. Why? In order to blow them up so we can privatize the USPS. This would then accomplish several things: shut down access for lower-income and rural people, raise rates, lower wages, cut workers, cut benefits, and then give the ability to Congress to then dole out tons of subisidies to them to keep those rural offices open. Currently we are giving zero dollars to the USPS.

What a brilliant, and sad, scheme we are seeing unfold.

not too impressed with politicians in liberal cities piling on Chick-Fil-A for easy points

that dude who said "voter id...which will ensure romney wins pennsylvania...done!" should be impeached.

But actually, it did serve to sway me. Whereas before I was ambivalent about voter ID, now I'm dead set against it. And it will make it extra certain that I get to the polls in November.

ChickFilA sucks nad I wont eat there, but you cant pick out which businesses you'll allow in a city unless it applies to a kind of business. you cant pick out a specific business. this is why you cant pull funding from just planned parenthood, either.

Bucky wrote:that dude who said "voter id...which will ensure romney wins pennsylvania...done!" should be impeached.

But actually, it did serve to sway me. Whereas before I was ambivalent about voter ID, now I'm dead set against it. And it will make it extra certain that I get to the polls in November.

what about it got you so riled up, buck? curious here.

and that letter from mayor of boston to chik-fil-a was pretty cool. idk about other liburlll politicians though

a Philly councilman jumped on the bandwagon yesterday

Bucky wrote:that dude who said "voter id...which will ensure romney wins pennsylvania...done!" should be impeached.

But actually, it did serve to sway me. Whereas before I was ambivalent about voter ID, now I'm dead set against it. And it will make it extra certain that I get to the polls in November.

I'm counting on jeff to set you straight any minute now