Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby Wolfgang622 » Sun May 13, 2012 14:35:54

dajafi wrote:That some (most?) Republicans are interested in severely restricting access to contraception pretty much gives away the game: they care less about reducing the incidence of unwanted pregnancies and abortions than they do about controlling women's sexual behavior.

At this point, I don't think even the most ardent pro-choicer is in any sense "pro-abortion." There should be universal interest in fewer unwanted pregnancies--many of which, when brought to term, lead to out of wedlock births which we know correlate to a whole bunch of bad outcomes--and fewer terminated pregnancies. There should be close to universal agreement on how we do that: intensive and consistent messaging about the emotional, and "lifestyle" risks of irresponsible sexual behavior. Sexuality is complicated because relationships are complicated: saying to teenagers that "you probably shouldn't have sex, but if you do, you definitely should use protection" isn't too much for their wee little brains to handle. Probably most teens from middle-class and wealthier circumstances do exactly that.

But it's a lot easier, and certainly better for fundraising, to try to ban contraception and then point to the moral failings of "those people."


Of course, I agree with all of this. If I ran the world, birth control pills would be available for free on every street corners from those machines you used to put a quarter into, turn the crank, and get a handful of M & Ms. I just wouldn't charge the quarter.

Until we reach the point where birth control for women is both widely AND FREELY available, it's hard to take an "abortion should be illegal" stance. And there is little doubt in my mind that the more instances of unwanted pregnancy a society sees, the more children will grow up in circumstances ranging from the merely bad to the unspeakable.

But the individual act of aborting a fetus still troubles me. As my Mom says, notice how for anyone who gets pregnant because she wanted to, the "fetus" is a "baby" from the first. When we call it a fetus, we're trying to put distance between it and what we are willing to recognize as human, because most of us don't like to think of ourselves as murderers.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby Monkeyboy » Mon May 14, 2012 03:00:08

There's birth control in vending machines here. There's also the morning after pill in there. The Swiss are so sensible.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby TenuredVulture » Mon May 14, 2012 14:59:42

People are missing the point of the JP Morgan problem. The point is that no one has a fucking clue. Our financial system has become too complex for anyone to be able to understand it. We'd do just as well letting chimps run these companies. Not to go all Ron Paul on everyone, but one implication of this is that regulation will fail because regulators will have no better idea about what they are doing than anyone else. (I'm convinced that even things as mundane as currency exchange are a kind of financial consubstantiation that no one really understands.) However, the fact is that there is no reason at all to believe deregulation improves things at all and substantial historical evidence to believe that deregulation is bad.

At this point, I'd guess that forcibly breaking up large entities like Citibank and JP Morgan into maybe 100 or so separate companies (But why not 1000? Why not 10? In the end, whatever number is chosen is arbitrary.) is the only way to come to grips with the fact that chimps sometimes make mistakes too, but breaking up large banks at least limits the damage any particular chimp might do.

In short, there is good reason to believe we are all doomed.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby Swiggers » Mon May 14, 2012 16:29:44

TenuredVulture wrote:Not to go all Ron Paul on everyone, but one implication of this is that regulation will fail because regulators will have no better idea about what they are doing than anyone else.


The Madoff scandal, among other things, showed us that the SEC is made up of buffoons that aren't capable of doing even basic investigative practices.

The regulators and the ratings agencies are mostly made up of people who weren't smart enough to cut it at investment banks.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby The Nightman Cometh » Mon May 14, 2012 17:04:19

mozartpc27 wrote:But the individual act of aborting a fetus still troubles me. As my Mom says, notice how for anyone who gets pregnant because she wanted to, the "fetus" is a "baby" from the first. When we call it a fetus, we're trying to put distance between it and what we are willing to recognize as human, because most of us don't like to think of ourselves as murderers.

I'm sympathetic to pro-life arguments, but this is one of the least salient arguments I have ever heard.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby thephan » Mon May 14, 2012 17:13:18

"Ron Paul to end active campaigning" - I did not realize that he was still actively campaigning. I guess that is more then part of the problem for the state of the Paul campaign.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby TenuredVulture » Mon May 14, 2012 18:37:13

Swiggers wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:Not to go all Ron Paul on everyone, but one implication of this is that regulation will fail because regulators will have no better idea about what they are doing than anyone else.


The Madoff scandal, among other things, showed us that the SEC is made up of buffoons that aren't capable of doing even basic investigative practices.

The regulators and the ratings agencies are mostly made up of people who weren't smart enough to cut it at investment banks.


Actually, there's no real difference between the I-bankers and the regulators--neither really has a clue. It turns out Dimon was an incompetent fool, and I doubt he is really any smarter than an ordinary SEC regulator.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby Rev_Beezer » Mon May 14, 2012 20:38:29

Either they are too stupid in the investigation process or they WANT to be stupid about it. same results, I guess.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby jerseyhoya » Mon May 14, 2012 22:50:02

Everyone on Twitter, both the conservative folks I follow and mainstream media journalists, are wetting their pants over this CBS/NYT poll that has Mitt up three and much closer among women.

It's a long election. Let's not freak the fuck out over one poll, which is probably a weird sample. Act like you've followed an election before.

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby jerseyhoya » Mon May 14, 2012 23:07:54

The one worthwhile number from the poll was public saying Obama changed his stance on gay marriage due to political reasons rather than because he thinks it's right by a 67-24% margin

That's something

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby thephan » Tue May 15, 2012 12:19:35

Read about the separated NY couple who are running against one another for a state seat. Her fourth term, I think, and he is the GOP nominee beating out two others for the slot on the ballot. What a frigging horrible idea. True Sideshow quality.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby philliesphhan » Tue May 15, 2012 13:00:04

jerseyhoya wrote:The one worthwhile number from the poll was public saying Obama changed his stance on gay marriage due to political reasons rather than because he thinks it's right by a 67-24% margin

That's something


I've had family members tell me that Obama did just that. I've also had the exact same family members tell me Obama was "always" for gay marriage.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby phatj » Tue May 15, 2012 13:01:59

Seems pretty obvious actually.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby The Dude » Tue May 15, 2012 13:25:21

Seems a weird thing to do for political reasons when it looks like so flipping many are against
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby jerseyhoya » Tue May 15, 2012 13:28:11

philliesphhan wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:The one worthwhile number from the poll was public saying Obama changed his stance on gay marriage due to political reasons rather than because he thinks it's right by a 67-24% margin

That's something

I've had family members tell me that Obama did just that. I've also had the exact same family members tell me Obama was "always" for gay marriage.

I think he's always personally thought gay marriage should be legal, but said that he was opposed to it publicly for political reasons. He was planning to 'evolve' to supporting it publicly at some point - either before this election or after - but his timetable was moved up thanks to Biden.

So he changed his stance last week for political reasons, but would have changed it eventually because he thought it was right.

In my always humble opinion

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby The Dude » Tue May 15, 2012 13:29:33

i thionk Biden affected it politically only to the point that Obama didn't want stories about a rift between the two of them if he didn't come out and say it. I don't really consider that politcal, though

of course, i could be using a different definition of political
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby thephan » Tue May 15, 2012 14:30:23

Greece FFS. Can't get a government together, and will go back to the polls. I cannot believe that the Euro is still pegged at $1.3:1 with all this stumbling about.

Germany's up 0.5, and some smaller northern states are up as well, the south is sucking wind with Greece, Spain, Czech, and Italy down. France stays steady doing not much at the moment. So how is the Euro frozen, I can only see that it should be trading lower, even with all the austerity moves.

Maybe I am over thinking this and it is like the grand old duke of york

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And when you're down, you're down
And when you're only half way up
You're neither up nor down
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby jerseyhoya » Tue May 15, 2012 14:41:46

The Dude wrote:i thionk Biden affected it politically only to the point that Obama didn't want stories about a rift between the two of them if he didn't come out and say it. I don't really consider that politcal, though

of course, i could be using a different definition of political

What nonpolitical reason would there be for Obama wanting to prevent stories about a rift between him and Biden?

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby The Dude » Tue May 15, 2012 14:45:15

When I think "political", I think pandering to a base. I know it's a fine line, but I think the majority of people saying "it's politcal" are saying it's to pander for votes, not stop a non-story from exploding in the press
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby jerseyhoya » Tue May 15, 2012 22:19:37



Quite honestly have no idea what to say

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