It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thread

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby pacino » Sun Feb 12, 2012 13:28:43

I agree with him on incentives from low-wage workers. Not requiring certain benefits like paid sick leave encourages people to come to work sick and decrease productivity and for employers to penalize those with children for calling off due an illness.

Not sure I'm a fan of child tax credits, but it's a legit topic for discussion.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby jerseyhoya » Sun Feb 12, 2012 14:11:44

The White House Chief of Staff (former head of OMB!!!) doesn't know the rules of how a budget resolution is passed in the Senate. He can be forgiven since Reid hasn't passed a budget in so long that I suppose it's easy enough to forget how it works.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby TenuredVulture » Sun Feb 12, 2012 15:52:14

Do Republicans really think making a stand over contraception is a winning issue? Is there polling data to that effect? Am I just living in some left wing echo chamber bubble?
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby allentown » Sun Feb 12, 2012 18:27:09

dajafi wrote:Ross Douthat is sub-useless whenever the discussion veers toward anything having to do with sex or faith. But he gets the linkage between macroeconomic change and the well-being of communities and families to a greater extent than any other Republican I can think of, and almost every Democrat. Aside from the (qualified) kudos to that racist hack Charles Murray, this column kills it.

What we can do... is take modest steps, in areas where culture and economics intersect, to make it easier for working-class Americans to cultivate the virtues that foster resilience and self-sufficiency. Here are four such steps:

First, if we want the poor to be industrious, we should do everything possible to make their industry pay off. The current tax-and-transfer system imposes a tax on work — the payroll tax — that falls heavily on low-wage labor, and poor Americans face steep marginal tax rates because of how their benefits phase out as their wages increase. Both burdens can and should be lightened. There are ways to finance Social Security besides a regressive tax on work, and ways to structure benefits and tax credits that don’t reduce the incentives to take a better-paying job.

Second, if we want lower-income Americans to have stable family lives, our political system should take family policy seriously, and look for ways to make it easier for parents to manage work-life balance when their kids are young. There are left-wing approaches to this issue (European-style family-leave requirements) and right-wing approaches (a larger child tax credit). Neither is currently on the national agenda; both should be.

Third, if we expect less-educated Americans to compete with low-wage workers in Asia and Latin America, we shouldn’t be welcoming millions of immigrants who compete with them domestically as well. Immigration benefits the economy over all, but it can lower wages and disrupt communities, and there’s no reason to ask an already-burdened working class to bear these costs alone. Here the leading Republican candidates have the right idea: We should welcome more high-skilled immigrants, while making it as hard as possible for employers to hire low-skilled workers off the books.

Finally, if we want low-income men to be marriageable, employable and law-abiding, we should work to reduce incarceration rates. Prison is a school for crime and an anchor on advancement, and there’s a large body of research — from scholars like U.C.L.A.’s Mark Kleiman and Berkeley’s Franklin E. Zimring — suggesting that swift, certain punishment and larger police forces can do as much to keep crime low as the more draconian approach to sentencing that our justice system often takes.


I've read this three times now and can't find a single word I disagree with. (Maybe the implied premise that benefits create incentives against taking higher-paying jobs.) He's both identified the problem--one that the hardest-core folks on both the left and right simply refuse to see--and articulated a range of very sensible and politically feasible solutions. Admittedly, there seem to be many more right-wing oxen getting gored here--corrections policy focusing on punishment rather than rehabilitation, hating on immigrants, laissez-faire regulation of businesses that hire off-the-books, regressive financing of Social Security--than left-wing (immigration policy focused on family reunification rather than maximizing human capital).

Loss of benefits do keep workers from taking jobs or taking better jobs. This is especially true for single moms. Many a job-training initiative for welfare moms has foundered, because they just couldn't make a go of it, without affordable daycare and the ability to take off to get sick kid to the clinic.
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby dajafi » Sun Feb 12, 2012 19:01:23

That's much less true than it used to be; this was one reason why welfare reform was justified (even if it didn't always take an ideal form). I grasp the theory--this is what I researched and wrote about for more than a decade--but I don't think it often works that way in practice. Even the reactionary agency that runs public assistance here in NYC is pretty diligent about ensuring that the folks they're pushing into the workforce (without bothering to train or educate, ensuring that they show right back up at the welfare office six months later) receive the benefits to which they're entitled.

Also, if you're competitive for a "better-paying" job, you probably have some skill that an employer cares about, and you'd be a fool not to leverage it. The one program I can think of for which this might not apply is Unemployment Insurance, where a highly skilled displaced worker might be a good deal better off staying on UI than he could get doing something much more menial. But I don't think that's what Douthat has in mind here.

At any rate, it's just nice to see a right-winger acknowledge the connection between the economic rules of the game and the pressures brought to bear on working-class families. You can't have the moral norms of the '50s without the huge union presence in the private sector and the rest of the superstructure that the Republicans were so glad to see dismantled.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Sun Feb 12, 2012 19:04:56

Mississippi state rep Steve Holland (D) introduced a bill to rename the Gulf of Mexico the "Gulf of America" as a satirical mockery of other xenophobic state bills recently intruduced in Mississippi. A lot of people and several GOP organizations thought it was serious, so did FOXNOOZ...

Image

Upon learning it was satirical, the prez of one of the GOP orgs that fell for it said race, immigration and ethnicity were issues too sensitive for satire.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby swishnicholson » Sun Feb 12, 2012 19:10:02

dajafi wrote:That's much less true than it used to be; this was one reason why welfare reform was justified (even if it didn't always take an ideal form). I grasp the theory--this is what I researched and wrote about for more than a decade--but I don't think it often works that way in practice. Even the reactionary agency that runs public assistance here in NYC is pretty diligent about ensuring that the folks they're pushing into the workforce (without bothering to train or educate, ensuring that they show right back up at the welfare office six months later) receive the benefits to which they're entitled.

Also, if you're competitive for a "higher-paying" job, you probably have some skill that an employer cares about, and you'd be a fool not to leverage it. The one program I can think of for which this might not apply is Unemployment Insurance, where a highly skilled displaced worker might be a good deal better off staying on UI than he could get doing something much more menial.


Well, you're both really saying the same thing, as is Douthat. Structure it so that moving ahead doesn't penalize the people it's supposed to benefit. Figure out what social good you're trying to achieve and form policy to achieve it, leaving all the finger-wagging and self-righteousness aside.
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby pacino » Sun Feb 12, 2012 19:10:08

people getting jobs through career link and reset programs and such still receive MA for their children (theyre kicked off after a year and dont have insurance at work because they work 30 hours a week), and SNAP because they can't make their basic ends meet. a $9/hr job and no support from the father of their child or two children does not a happy checkbook make. then there are the two-parent families where the man is working 55 hours a week, they have three young kids and come in for SNAP and MA because insurance for children is exorbitant and their attempt to pay the rent or mortgage and all the bills just isn't working.

then these people are called sponges off the rest of society. it'd be nice to simply mandate certain benefits...such as a single-payer (one can dream). since that won't happen, lots of ancillary benefits and workers' rights need to be enacted.
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby pacino » Sun Feb 12, 2012 19:13:50

maybe one of the best programs for the working/UIC-receiving poor is this program, Select Plan for Women. instituted under governor rendell, it's helped thousands of women across the state get access to free women's care. it also controls costs. here's what's covered:

Birth control (pills, condoms, diaphragms, the patch and more). Find out more
Routine check-ups, including breast exams and Pap smears. Why do I need these tests?
Emergency contraception How does it work?
STD testing and treatment. Why do I need these tests?
HIV testing and counseling. What you must know.
Lab testing related to these services


rick santorm just fainted.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby Monkeyboy » Sun Feb 12, 2012 20:42:38

So it didn't look like Santorum had any chance, but now he has a reasonable shot. It will be much tougher for Mitt to kill Santorum with big ad buys. He doesn't have as many skeletons as Newt.

A lot may depend on if Newt stays in the race. I wonder how big of a deal Newt is leveraging for himself right now.... He may never have to worry about going bankrupt again.
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby td11 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 23:38:49

Image
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby pacino » Sun Feb 12, 2012 23:39:58

"pope john paulllllll"
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby jamiethekiller » Sun Feb 12, 2012 23:43:10

gotta jerk OFF the ball

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby jerseyhoya » Sun Feb 12, 2012 23:59:15

George Norcross puff piece from the Courier Post

If he somehow does manage to turn Camden around a bit, it's worth him lining his pockets along the way

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby GrizzledVeteran » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:49:11

jerseyhoya wrote:George Norcross puff piece from the Courier Post

If he somehow does manage to turn Camden around a bit, it's worth him lining his pockets along the way


The CP has become an absolute joke. Gannett has gutted it with layoffs and buyouts. I remember when we did real newspapering at the CP. This knob-slobbering over Norcross is disgusting.
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby traderdave » Mon Feb 13, 2012 15:04:32

Agreed, Griz and Hoya. Also, NJ Senate passed same-sex marriage legislation this morning; Assembly likely to follow. Sets Christie up to be the guy who stopped same-sex marriage in NJ, which, of course, is fine with conservatives but might not sit well with anybody who lives in the real world. That said, I think same-sex marriage is probably pretty low on the list of priorities for most New Jerseyans.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby Grotewold » Mon Feb 13, 2012 16:15:57

traderdave wrote:That said, I think same-sex marriage is probably pretty low on the list of priorities for most New Jerseyans.


Certainly lower than same-old-sex marriage

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby slugsrbad » Mon Feb 13, 2012 16:19:06

Image
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby lethal » Mon Feb 13, 2012 16:36:17

slugsrbad wrote:Image


Also kind of interesting reading related to that topic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us/ev ... wanted=all

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Feb 13, 2012 17:37:35

We really might nominate Rick Santorum, huh

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