It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thread

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Feb 10, 2012 17:03:26

td11 wrote:chinese twitters apparently lit up with reports that kim jung un was assassinated in beijing today. nothing confirmed yet, so it's most likely BS, but who knows.

reddit page with some links


Nothing on Drudge.
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Fri Feb 10, 2012 17:55:38

drsmooth wrote:Congressman Steve King (R - IA?) has a shaky grasp of biology. He just asserted on some show that he believes the Pill aborts unborn babies

In my entirely anecdotal opinion, it seems as if most people who are opposed to the use of oral contraception have little or no understanding of how it works.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Fri Feb 10, 2012 21:13:17

td11 wrote:chinese twitters apparently lit up with reports that kim jung un was assassinated in beijing today. nothing confirmed yet, so it's most likely BS, but who knows.

If true, I hope the media is careful with their headlines. Knowing how the internet is, something like "Kim Jong Un Dead" will surely lead to a zombie meme.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby drsmooth » Sat Feb 11, 2012 09:36:41

Andrew Breitbart getting his weird on (Occupy does that to people)

Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby MoBettle » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:41:02

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/ ... S_0211.pdf

Santorum 38% Romney 23% :shock:

Can people really be this fickle?
Two days later I get a text back that says I'm a basketball player and a businessman, not a Thundercat.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby Roger Dorn » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:41:41

People are stupid. Whoever the media talks about the most gets a surge in popularity. The media really can control elections.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby Barry Jive » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:42:53

haha
no offense but you are everything that's wrong with America

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby dajafi » Sat Feb 11, 2012 13:27:42

I enjoyed this piece in the NYT about Santorum's appeal to the Republican base, though I'm not sure whether that's because it's innately brilliant or because it echoes a suspicion I've had for a long time regarding their peculiar conception of "freedom" as the power to deprive others of personal agency:

“Human beings have a purpose, or ‘end,’ a telos,” Santorum writes in his book. According to the tradition of natural law, every part of our bodies has a telos too. In the case of our genitalia, that natural end is heterosexual sex for the purpose of procreation. It follows that marriage between a man and a woman “is fundamentally natural,” Santorum writes. “The promise of natural law is that we will be the happiest, and freest, when we follow the law built into our nature as men and women. For liberals, however, nature is too confining, and thus is the enemy of freedom.” Later on, he elaborates on his jaundiced view of freedom with a quotation from Edmund Burke: “Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains on their appetites.”

How could Tea Partiers who once dressed in three-cornered hats and waved “Live Free or Die” flags now swoon to reasoning like this? The truth is that the Tea Party’s demand for “strict construction” of the Constitution and a return to the Founders’ “true intentions” is not really a cry for unfettered freedom. It is an attempt to uncover the immutable, divine will of the Founders — a homegrown version of natural law that would provide grounds for forbidding abortion, same-sex marriage and “Obamacare” in the name of American liberty.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Feb 11, 2012 13:45:51

Santorum is pretty explicit about how he dislikes libertarianism.



This isn't like a hidden ball trick or anything.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby TenuredVulture » Sat Feb 11, 2012 14:09:04

"Christian Liberty" is a species of what Isaiah Berlin labelled positive liberty. It's not the only species--Rousseau and Marx are other significant advocates of this notion of liberty. In a nutshell, it defines freedom as self-government, and involves either the elimination of "false consciousness" or behaving according to the general will. If you were truly enlightened, you would want this. So, to make you free, we will force you to do what you ought to want to do anyway. "Forced to be free" in the words of Rousseau. As far as advocates of this notion of freedom are concerned, negative liberty, doing whatever you want, is wrong because it means, for example, a drug addict's "choice" to continue to use drugs is no different than your choice to eat right and exercise. The freedom is freedom from sin. Ultimately, you are supposed to lose the desire to sin, and what you want to do and what you're supposed to do are the same thing. Only then can you be truly free.

I really wonder though if this issue really reveals a major miscalculation for the right. First, why abandon the economic rhetoric? I wonder if all that many people really support the Bishops on this birth control thing. It seems at best politically convenient, as many who are speaking out on this issue are trying create a moral equivalency between abortion and birth control, something I don't think many people really believe. I'm sure some evangelicals are uncomfortable with some forms of birth control, but in general, it's not a big deal in the way abortion is. Maybe the who "Obama is attacking religion" may have some resonance, but I think the more likely outcome is that this will drive independents away.

Finally, on the Founders thing--I really think all this is something else. Most of the Constitutionalist rhetoric is really just very bad history (Thomas Paine as a theocrat conservative? Really?) I mean, if you're so illiterate that you need Glenn Beck to "translate" the Federalist Papers for you, I don't think you really have the ability to really read and understand the constitution. You certainly cannot possibly have the historical background to begin such a study.

I especially love it when those people go on about how the Founders created a republic not a democracy. Because I've read the republican tracts from the founding era, and it's pretty clear that like any conventional republican, they believed that maintaining a republican form of government required not just legal, but material equality as well.

Santorum's Thomism by the way has popped up in all kinds of corners of academic political theory. If this kind of analysis takes hold, we'll be hearing the Straussian label thrown around again.
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Sat Feb 11, 2012 16:18:35

dajafi wrote:
... In the case of our genitalia ...

jerseyhoya wrote:This isn't like a hidden ball trick or anything.


Image

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Feb 11, 2012 17:27:42

Mitt won the CPAC straw poll somehow

Maine results should be announced in about two hours. There hasn't been much public polling, but people seem to think it'll be between Paul and Romney.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Feb 11, 2012 19:26:33

Mitt wins Maine

With 2,190 votes

FFS have primaries

Note: Maine turnout UP over 2008

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby pacino » Sun Feb 12, 2012 02:00:38

Why is ron Paul against the will of the people when his people have delegates subvert the votes of their local voters. Not very honest. Kinda pathetic.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Sun Feb 12, 2012 05:25:09

jerseyhoya wrote:Mitt wins Maine

With 2,190 votes

Maine has 2190 people?

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby drsmooth » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:59:44

On the plus side, Santorum is sincere & consistent in his convictions

On the minus side, too many of his convictions are a doomed combination of childish and rigid
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby Bucky » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:08:19

you forgot "nutso"

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby dajafi » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:08:36

Watching Jack Lew on the George Snuffalopagus show. Why is it that the Democrats have NOBODY who can advance an argument in a forum like this?

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby dajafi » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:49:59

Ross Douthat is sub-useless whenever the discussion veers toward anything having to do with sex or faith. But he gets the linkage between macroeconomic change and the well-being of communities and families to a greater extent than any other Republican I can think of, and almost every Democrat. Aside from the (qualified) kudos to that racist hack Charles Murray, this column kills it.

What we can do... is take modest steps, in areas where culture and economics intersect, to make it easier for working-class Americans to cultivate the virtues that foster resilience and self-sufficiency. Here are four such steps:

First, if we want the poor to be industrious, we should do everything possible to make their industry pay off. The current tax-and-transfer system imposes a tax on work — the payroll tax — that falls heavily on low-wage labor, and poor Americans face steep marginal tax rates because of how their benefits phase out as their wages increase. Both burdens can and should be lightened. There are ways to finance Social Security besides a regressive tax on work, and ways to structure benefits and tax credits that don’t reduce the incentives to take a better-paying job.

Second, if we want lower-income Americans to have stable family lives, our political system should take family policy seriously, and look for ways to make it easier for parents to manage work-life balance when their kids are young. There are left-wing approaches to this issue (European-style family-leave requirements) and right-wing approaches (a larger child tax credit). Neither is currently on the national agenda; both should be.

Third, if we expect less-educated Americans to compete with low-wage workers in Asia and Latin America, we shouldn’t be welcoming millions of immigrants who compete with them domestically as well. Immigration benefits the economy over all, but it can lower wages and disrupt communities, and there’s no reason to ask an already-burdened working class to bear these costs alone. Here the leading Republican candidates have the right idea: We should welcome more high-skilled immigrants, while making it as hard as possible for employers to hire low-skilled workers off the books.

Finally, if we want low-income men to be marriageable, employable and law-abiding, we should work to reduce incarceration rates. Prison is a school for crime and an anchor on advancement, and there’s a large body of research — from scholars like U.C.L.A.’s Mark Kleiman and Berkeley’s Franklin E. Zimring — suggesting that swift, certain punishment and larger police forces can do as much to keep crime low as the more draconian approach to sentencing that our justice system often takes.


I've read this three times now and can't find a single word I disagree with. (Maybe the implied premise that benefits create incentives against taking higher-paying jobs.) He's both identified the problem--one that the hardest-core folks on both the left and right simply refuse to see--and articulated a range of very sensible and politically feasible solutions. Admittedly, there seem to be many more right-wing oxen getting gored here--corrections policy focusing on punishment rather than rehabilitation, hating on immigrants, laissez-faire regulation of businesses that hire off-the-books, regressive financing of Social Security--than left-wing (immigration policy focused on family reunification rather than maximizing human capital).

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby pacino » Sun Feb 12, 2012 13:23:15

dajafi wrote:Watching Jack Lew on the George Snuffalopagus show. Why is it that the Democrats have NOBODY who can advance an argument in a forum like this?

She's running for Congress in Massachusetts and he's currently running the city of Newark.

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