they're completely forcing publishers to give extra % on sales, which is illegal, as well.

Houshphandzadeh wrote:Because their market share allows them to bully the heck out of publishers and gain a dangerous amount of control over the whole marketplace of ideas. They're coming up on 50% of all books sold

Yet publishers still somehow manage to set price restrictions for Kindle books and the like. I'm not really sure why I should be concerned.

As for the marketplace of ideas: If anything, it seems easier to find an independent publisher and get your book noticed by the masses than it was in the days of large corporate B&M bookstores like Borders and Barnes & Noble (1.0). Am I missing something?

Don't know if this is the right thread, but the Montco DA's office is requesting a coroner's inquest on Cardinal Bevilacqua, since he passed just one day after it was ruled that he was allowed to testify in the Archdioces' pedophilia trial.

why shouldn't publishers be able to set the price for their kindle versions?

you should be concerned b/c publishers are losing money b/c of Amazon strong-arming them into price setting and gouging them on extra money for each sale made.

Another thing that hurts in academic publishing is that they will Print on Demand, meaning a student will get an outdated version of a book b/c it's cheaper than the new version. Publishers don't see any money from htat

you say, "still somehow manage to set price restrictions," like that isn't the way things have normally been in American markets to protect manufacturers. Amazon tried to make everything 9.99 just as a strong-arm tactic to gain as much share of the online book market as possible, even though they lost money on every sale. it might seem like it's in your interest while you're making that one purchase, but not later on when there's no competition, or when this new style of "free market" comes to your industry

Nate has an article up about Santorum being a legitimate threat to win the nomination. I've been enjoying jh squirming a bit, but this is just not ok.

Maddow completely blew up any real objection by Catholic institutions to this coverage mandate.

Houshphandzadeh wrote:you say, "still somehow manage to set price restrictions," like that isn't the way things have normally been in American markets to protect manufacturers. Amazon tried to make everything 9.99 just as a strong-arm tactic to gain as much share of the online book market as possible, even though they lost money on every sale. it might seem like it's in your interest while you're making that one purchase, but not later on when there's no competition, or when this new style of "free market" comes to your industry

1. I said "still somehow manage" in a sarcastic manner in response to your statement that they were getting steamrolled by Amazon. Plenty of them have stood firm.

2. Why is the book industry somehow different than every other industry out there? Are you equally concerned about the impact of Wal-Mart's bargaining power on most retail goods? Are these companies suddenly in danger of going out of business?

Like I said, I'm willing to be educated on this point. But I see it as cutting both ways for reasons I said in my previous post. The major publishing houses have for years controlled the marketplace of ideas, then the big box bookstores started having quite an input as well. I just kinda roll my eyes at the idea that Amazon is somehow making the situation worse than it already was.

And if the publishing houses can't survive under a tighter pricing scheme, perhaps they need to rethink their structure. As if a legal textbook should actually cost $125? Or the average hardback fiction book $29.95? (Hell, why even release run-of-the-mill fiction or non-fiction in hardback at this point?)

yes, they should be expensive, b/c instructors demand so many ancillaries for the book that the book becomes extremely expensive for publishers to put out.

Still don't address the extra 2.5% Amazon demands per sale.
And yes, many people feel the same way about Walmart. That was a bizarre defense

I don't really want to go on and on because I'm not really an expert, but my answer to 2. is a resounding Yes. I think we should try to reverse the slippery slope of abandoning local economies

I'm gonna read some Alex de Tocqueville and get back to you in two years

Obama's compromise on the contraception thing is to force insurance companies to pay for coverage if the Catholic institutions refuse to. A brilliant job on his part. This boxes in the bishops. If they continue to object(and since they can't help themselves, they probably will), the bishops will be exposed as only interested in denying the right to use contraception to their employees, regardless of their religious affiliation.

The freedom of religion argument is classic projection. The bishops want to deny their employees their right to their own religious opinions(or lack thereof) on contraception.

The US Conference of Catholic Bishops has become a far right wing organization that often opposes policies and programs that many other church figures support. They came out against the health care bill altogether, while many other Catholic organizations supported it. The pope himself made it clear that health care is a right that should be afforded to all, regardless of one's ability to pay.

I'm an increasingly disaffected Catholic and I really can't stand the bishops. I would trust a lowly parish priest or a nun over a bishop any day of the week.

The Dude wrote:yes, they should be expensive, b/c instructors demand so many ancillaries for the book that the book becomes extremely expensive for publishers to put out.

Still don't address the extra 2.5% Amazon demands per sale.
And yes, many people feel the same way about Walmart. That was a bizarre defense

W/r/t textbooks: that's my point. Rethink the industry. If the publishers don't give out the ancillaries, then it's a moot point. Or what, are the instructors going to stop writing textbooks? I'll believe that when I see it.

W/r/t Walmart: My point wasn't whether people resent Walmart... it was whether Walmart is leading to the death of, e.g., the television industry through slim or even loss-leader profit margins. Or the DVD/Blu-Ray industry. Another good comparison would be Apple on its music or book sales, considering they and Amazon share many of the same strategies.

Don't get me wrong, I hear what you're saying... I just don't see the slippery slope here.

Here's an article discussing Amazon's situation. The article itself is interesting, but the comments at the bottom are a far more educated/intellectual discussion than I could ever conduct on this topic: http://seekingalpha.com/article/250507-amazon-positioned-for-50-overall-market-share-by-end-of-2012

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:

The Dude wrote:yes, they should be expensive, b/c instructors demand so many ancillaries for the book that the book becomes extremely expensive for publishers to put out.

Still don't address the extra 2.5% Amazon demands per sale.
And yes, many people feel the same way about Walmart. That was a bizarre defense

W/r/t textbooks: that's my point. Rethink the industry. If the publishers don't give out the ancillaries, then it's a moot point. Or what, are the instructors going to stop writing textbooks? I'll believe that when I see it.

W/r/t Walmart: My point wasn't whether people resent Walmart... it was whether Walmart is leading to the death of, e.g., the television industry through slim or even loss-leader profit margins. Or the DVD/Blu-Ray industry. Another good comparison would be Apple on its music or book sales, considering they and Amazon share many of the same strategies.

Don't get me wrong, I hear what you're saying... I just don't see the slippery slope here.

you seem to think the industry acts in concert. No publisher can afford to be the first to say "Ok, no more ancillaries". Also, ancillaries are only on huge expense. You ahve a full staff of Acquisitions Editors, Developmental Editors, copywriters, royalties to the authors, etc. etc. etc. You're also ignoring the other problems (extra %, selling previous editions, etc.) that are major problems.

I can't remember the stat, but it's something like 80% of money remains locally when you buy local, 2% or something when you buy from chains. That's a pretty big deal, too

kopphanatic wrote:Obama's compromise on the contraception thing is to force insurance companies to pay for coverage if the Catholic institutions refuse to.

It may seem a minor distinction, but insurers aren't forced to pay for coverage. Their policies must include the coverage. Their customers - like employers, who pay for about half of all health care in the US via the group coverage they buy - pay for the coverage. And employers may require employees to contribute for coverage.

See the opportunity for Catholic-run - and, heck, any other - enterprises there?

Do instructors really demand ancillaries? Maybe this is more disciplinary than anything else and of course my evidence is anecdotal, but I really don't know many who do use them extensively. I guess that's why Hackett so easily beats everyone else on price. I do think professors should be more attentive to price when selecting books for courses.

And it bugs the crap out of me that they come out with new editions of Am Gov textbooks every two years, but they don't really update them except to change the number of Dems and Reps in congress. In the book I'm using, the section on campaign finance doesn't do a good job of reflecting the changes that have occurred since 2002.

TenuredVulture wrote:Do instructors really demand ancillaries? Maybe this is more disciplinary than anything else and of course my evidence is anecdotal, but I really don't know many who do use them extensively. I guess that's why Hackett so easily beats everyone else on price. I do think professors should be more attentive to price when selecting books for courses.

oh lord yes, if a book doesn't have the courses tests, quizzes, powerpoints, and syllabus, it doesn't stand a chance. I'm talking Medical/Nursing/Health Professions here, where books are updated on 4 year cycles, too (and that's due to scientific advances in many of the fields)

drsmooth wrote:

kopphanatic wrote:Obama's compromise on the contraception thing is to force insurance companies to pay for coverage if the Catholic institutions refuse to.

It may seem a minor distinction, but insurers aren't forced to pay for coverage. Their policies must include the coverage. Their customers - like employers, who pay for about half of all health care in the US via the group coverage they buy - pay for the coverage. And employers may require employees to contribute for coverage.

See the opportunity for Catholic-run - and, heck, any other - enterprises there?

I see it. The bishops won't.

The Dude wrote:

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:

The Dude wrote:yes, they should be expensive, b/c instructors demand so many ancillaries for the book that the book becomes extremely expensive for publishers to put out.

Still don't address the extra 2.5% Amazon demands per sale.
And yes, many people feel the same way about Walmart. That was a bizarre defense

W/r/t textbooks: that's my point. Rethink the industry. If the publishers don't give out the ancillaries, then it's a moot point. Or what, are the instructors going to stop writing textbooks? I'll believe that when I see it.

W/r/t Walmart: My point wasn't whether people resent Walmart... it was whether Walmart is leading to the death of, e.g., the television industry through slim or even loss-leader profit margins. Or the DVD/Blu-Ray industry. Another good comparison would be Apple on its music or book sales, considering they and Amazon share many of the same strategies.

Don't get me wrong, I hear what you're saying... I just don't see the slippery slope here.

you seem to think the industry acts in concert. No publisher can afford to be the first to say "Ok, no more ancillaries". Also, ancillaries are only on huge expense. You ahve a full staff of Acquisitions Editors, Developmental Editors, copywriters, royalties to the authors, etc. etc. etc. You're also ignoring the other problems (extra %, selling previous editions, etc.) that are major problems.

I can't remember the stat, but it's something like 80% of money remains locally when you buy local, 2% or something when you buy from chains. That's a pretty big deal, too

Fair enough on your first point. Industries manage to correct themselves though... if there is too much overhead that makes a product too expensive, firms will correct themselves. They've been protected on the textbook issue because of artificial barriers like student bookstores being the only available merchant until this past decade. (Dear god, I hate arguing free market concepts--I'm far from a free market guy.)

The buy local argument doesn't really weigh too heavily for me though. Amazon already has one distribution center in Virginia and is opening two more. By the end of 2013 they're going to be employing several thousand people in my state and nearly 1500 in the Richmond area alone. Sorry, but those dollars are more important than whether a local bookstore stays open.

One of our books last year had an image bank, and PowePoint files, but the images weren't in the slides (we let the instructors decide which images should go in which slides). The uproar from instructors was unreal, the fact they had to spend 10 minutes a week choosing a few images.

not for nothin', but I used to work for a great company that got steamrolled by Wal*Mart, lost lots of money for the "privilege" of their "business", and went out of business a little while later. Now I'm not saying that was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it certainly didn't help.