It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thread

by **Bucky** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 17:40:42

but then they get absolved in confession so it's all good

by **jeff2sf** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 17:47:49

So if the alternative is, these hospitals close their doors, and they aren't in the nicest of neighborhoods, rather than do something they don't feel good about, that's a good outcome for everybody? As opposed to just asking a nurse to go find another job if the pill's that important to her?

I mean if this was a Catholic company that was selling little pope figurines and trying to make money, I'd be less sympathetic.

I'm not totally on board with the Catholics here, but it doesn't seem like they're the only ones being unreasonable here.

by **RichmondPhilsFan** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 18:04:30

Rev_Beezer wrote:Also, I think the Catholic aggression towards the president is merited. They stand were they stand, even though I don't agree with their stance on contraception. They aren't going to change their minds, and forcing them to act differently than their conscience is just going to make things worse.

Screw their conscience. They've had no problem promoting the lie that HIV can be transmitted through a condom because "the microholes in latex condoms are bigger than the virus." My high school Morality teacher (a priest) taught us that one... apparently it's a pretty common Catholic myth.

So yeah, I have no problem mandating they do something that "violates" their conscience, considering their conscience is very selective.

And especially considering that contraceptives can be prescribed for many reasons other than actual contraception.

by **phdave** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 18:16:05

My wife works for a catholic university and has always had access to birth control via her health insurance. Not all catholic organizations are being unreasonable. Just the ones who want to dictate their morality onto other people. It's hilarious to hear them complain that it goes against their moral teaching. This has nothing to do with teaching morals.

by **BuddyGroom** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 18:36:46

As a Catholic (but I should add I no longer refer to myself as "Roman Catholic"), please just be aware that the Church is hardly monolithic. Among both the clergy and the congregation is a wide range of political/social views. Which I recognize having during my adult life gone from being staunchly "pro life" to staunchly "pro choice" to now a sense of a "a pox on both houses" and a general sense that while I personally oppose abortion, I think men, to the extent that is practical, should just stay out of it entirely. My experience is that most women take this responsibility as seriously as men take anything - and if a majority say they need the legal right to choose, who am I to argue.

Yes, the Church's formal position on contraception is silly. But so are its positions on clergy marrying, women being allowed to be ordained - heck, in some places it's still a bit controversial that girls get to be "altar servers."

My girlfriend is a lapsed Catholic - she left the Church for conservative reasons, then moved to the left politically and still did not feel comfortable in the Church and so is a devout Protestant. I feel the temptation sometimes, but culturally I'm a Catholic. I can't really change that, and also believe in the idea of peacefully reforming institutions from within.

I think liberal American Catholics - either politically, dogmatically or both - should break off from Rome and form a new denomination called something like the American Catholic Church.

by **MoBettle** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 18:45:46

People would be wise to separate "the Roman-Catholic Church leadership" from "Catholics" in this discussion. Self-identified Catholics are more in favor of requiring providing birth control in health care coverage than the general population. Moreover, most Catholics don't take political advice from mass on Sundays. Any thoughts that Obama is going to lose the Catholic vote (Any more than he already has) over this are greatly exaggerated.

edit-what buddy said.

by **phdave** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 18:46:22

Italy has one of the lowest fertility rates in the world (1.38). 90% Catholic.

by **pacino** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 18:51:58

jeff2sf wrote:So if the alternative is, these hospitals close their doors, and they aren't in the nicest of neighborhoods, rather than do something they don't feel good about, that's a good outcome for everybody? As opposed to just asking a nurse to go find another job if the pill's that important to her?

I mean if this was a Catholic company that was selling little pope figurines and trying to make money, I'd be less sympathetic.

I'm not totally on board with the Catholics here, but it doesn't seem like they're the only ones being unreasonable here.

lots of states already mandate it. this is just old men in robes and collars throwing hissy fits to up their sunday offerings. btw, we dont listen to catholic bishops about poverty, why listen about social issues?

by **pacino** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 19:07:20

So I got this green bag right here. And I filled it up with the black market light bulbs. And I brought them back to my office here in the Capitol. Whenever I need to put a bulb in the lamp, I reach in this green bag and I screw it in there and smile. A little bit of my liberty back. A little bit of our freedom back. And I want to challenge you to do the same thing. Bring back some of that liberty, some of that freedom. -Rep. Steve King at CPAC

by **pacino** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 19:11:22

this is sort of sneaky of ron paul. genius, but sneaky and kind of subverting the actual votes. somehow he's getting lots of delegate slots despite consistently being 3rd or 4th. i do know a guy that is going be a delegate and he's going to go with ron paul, regardless of how anyone in PA votes.

by **Swiggers** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 19:51:45

BuddyGroom wrote:I think liberal American Catholics - either politically, dogmatically or both - should break off from Rome and form a new denomination called something like the American Catholic Church.

Or convert to the Episcopal Church, which is the American version of the Anglican Church, which shares a lot of ritual and practices with Catholicism, just not the Vatican hierarchy and most of its messed-up views.

by **TenuredVulture** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 19:56:53

BuddyGroom wrote:

I think liberal American Catholics - either politically, dogmatically or both - should break off from Rome and form a new denomination called something like the American Catholic Church.

It's called the Episcopal Church. Except I guess Episcopalians are more into kneeling than liberal Catholics.

by **jerseyhoya** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 23:46:43

First Nuclear Power Reactors approved in the US since 1978.

by **Phan In Phlorida** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 02:54:21

pacino wrote:
So I got this green bag right here. And I filled it up with the black market light bulbs. And I brought them back to my office here in the Capitol. Whenever I need to put a bulb in the lamp, I reach in this green bag and I screw it in there and smile. A little bit of my liberty back. A little bit of our freedom back. And I want to challenge you to do the same thing. Bring back some of that liberty, some of that freedom. -Rep. Steve King at CPAC

I plan on building a black market incandescent light bulb empire. Let me know if you want to be my Reading, uh, "connection". Remember, in this country, you gotta make the money first. When you get the money, you get the power. When you get the power, then you get the women.

by **Monkeyboy** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 08:47:07

That shithead should have to breathe coal dust for the rest of his life.... and then he can tell us how freedom feels for a good chunk of the world. Really, what an irresponsible jackass.

by **drsmooth** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 08:53:48

Monkeyboy wrote:That shithead should have to breathe coal dust for the rest of his life.... and then he can tell us how freedom feels for a good chunk of the world. Really, what an irresponsible jackass.

Steve King's conception of freedom & liberty consists of letting his dog shit on his neighbor's yard

he has too much company in his party

by **Houshphandzadeh** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:11:24

Avoiding Amazon on principle is a tall order

by **drsmooth** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:32:40

Not that the NYTimes has a particular slant on the matter or anything, but they accompanied their lead story today on the contraception fracas with this shot of Archbishop Dolan:

by **TenuredVulture** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:42:19

Houshphandzadeh wrote:Avoiding Amazon on principle is a tall order

Why should I want to do that?

by **Houshphandzadeh** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:48:55

Because their market share allows them to bully the heck out of publishers and gain a dangerous amount of control over the whole marketplace of ideas. They're coming up on 50% of all books sold

Archived

It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thread

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr