Truck Yourself, This is the NEW Politics Thread

by **jerseyhoya** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 14:49:03

How can Nixon have won? Nobody I know voted for him.

by **drsmooth** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 14:52:54

VoxOrion wrote:I know people go to see Palin at rallies and tune in to see her on talk shows and whatnot, but the visceral hatred for her is hysterical. Maybe it's because I'm here and not there, but I get the impression there's easily a 3 to 1 ratio of people who talk about her that hate her than like her. Most of it is "Look How Hip And Left And Smart I Am" re-affirm my cred to the echo-chamber stuff, but some people are damn near obsessed with her.

I'm not sure what you're interpreting as hatred is actually that. Who could really hate such a chipper chippie?

It is possible I suppose to hate the attention she gets, because it's painful to realize that when the rest of the world looks at America it might actually be concluding she can claim authentic leadership here.

by **dajafi** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 14:56:34

jerseyhoya wrote:
How can Nixon have won? Nobody I know voted for him.

This is one of the all-time great political quotes, but what's upsetting about it is how many modern-day Democrats probably can say the same thing about Bush, and Republicans about Obama. We're all Pauline Kael.

by **Philly the Kid** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 15:23:55

jerseyhoya wrote:
How can Nixon have won? Nobody I know voted for him.

I remember being seriously troubled when the hottie I dug in 1st grade and played with in the schoolyard told me her daddy was voting for Tricky. Til then, I just assumed all the people would vote for the good guys.

As for Palin -- it's not hate as much as loathing. She's done nothing worthy of being in the limelight, nor portending to discuss issues of relevance. Being a corrupt ex-beauty pageant contestant from Alaska, are hardly qualifications. That she's contoured herself in to somewhat of a viable "brand" for certain reactionary forces and extreme idealogs on the right -- is even more insidious. We don't hater her personally, though we might if we knew her, we hate what she represents and how why and who brought her to the stage in the first place.

Fame in this country is profitable in almost all circumstances. Didn't OJ get a book deal? So there's always that --- greed. Doesn't make one more likable.

by **kopphanatic** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 15:29:04

For me, it's the fact that stupidity and willful ignorance are increasingly celebrated in our society. We deride education and science as "arrogance" or "elitism" and we celebrate people that have not really provided meaningful and positive contributions to American society(as ptk said). This isn't limited to politics either. It has become a cultural thing in recent years.

by **VoxOrion** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 15:38:19

Hate probably isn't fair - obsession is.

I'll just put it out there:

Palin is the left's straw(wo)man and we'll never stop hearing about her because she gins up the left more than the right. She's Ann Coulter with a dimwitted middle-America sounding accent that grates on the ears of anyone who lives in an important part of the country (in terms of the grass-roots). She's an absolute gift.

When you stop being obsessed with her, she'll stop appearing in news articles and blog entries.

by **Philly the Kid** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 15:39:03

kopphanatic wrote:For me, it's the fact that stupidity and willful ignorance are increasingly celebrated in our society. We deride education and science as "arrogance" or "elitism" and we celebrate people that have not really provided meaningful and positive contributions to American society(as ptk said). This isn't limited to politics either. It has become a cultural thing in recent years.

Not strictly political in nature -- but I would extend your comment to say that we also value celebrity way too much in this culture (again because of profit) So we elevate celebs and their deeds and words. Do I really care what Charles Barkeley has to say about politics after a round of skinz game with Jordan? I'm more aligned with Alec Baldwin but is he passing his 30Rock income and red carpet lifestyle for the cause?

Again -- it's about who gets to frame the discussion/debates, set up the language. The right has been expert at creating terms and just hammering them over n over n over.

There's an annual event (just 2 weeks ago) whereby the Right To Lifers have a rally at a plaza across from my farmer's market and then march down a big street close to where I live. This year I could watch it from my windows. Anyway -- the first or 2nd year I noticed them, I wandered over, roamed the crowd. What was amazing was how absolutely manipulative and sensationalized it was. They brought out fallen jezebels that "found God" after being coerced to have abortions, and the worst was how they appropriated the language of civil rights movement. It was offensive to hear Dr. King's remarks twisted.

And that's why I harp on the corporate media. Which ironically has accepted the term "liberal media" which is almost an oxymoron (emphasis on Moron)

Take a tiny example of say local evening news -- who chooses to call some phantom far away person "an insurgent" or "a freedom fighter" ?? Those little decisions shape public opinion and perception.

Anyway.... YES.

by **pacino** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 15:46:25

VoxOrion wrote:Hate probably isn't fair - obsession is.

I'll just put it out there:

Palin is the left's straw(wo)man and we'll never stop hearing about her because she gins up the left more than the right. She's Ann Coulter with a dimwitted middle-America sounding accent that grates on the ears of anyone who lives in an important part of the country (in terms of the grass-roots). She's an absolute gift.

When you stop being obsessed with her, she'll stop appearing in news articles and blog entries.

We're not the ones going to see her, so please with this 'echo-chamber' bs. 35% of the electorate is obsessed with her, yes...the ones who go see her, buy her shtick and her book and watch her on tv. Not us, the ones that laugh at the ridiculous crap she attempts and merely point out time and time again how horrible her being president would be.

You seem to want to take to task the people that point out the ridiculousness of her statements and hypocrisy ,but not the ones that buy it.

by **kopphanatic** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 15:48:22

pacino wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:Hate probably isn't fair - obsession is.

I'll just put it out there:

Palin is the left's straw(wo)man and we'll never stop hearing about her because she gins up the left more than the right. She's Ann Coulter with a dimwitted middle-America sounding accent that grates on the ears of anyone who lives in an important part of the country (in terms of the grass-roots). She's an absolute gift.

When you stop being obsessed with her, she'll stop appearing in news articles and blog entries.

We're not the ones going to see her, so please with this 'echo-chamber' bs. 35% of the electorate is obsessed with her, yes...the ones who go see her, buy her shtick and her book and watch her on tv. Not us, the ones that laugh at the ridiculous crap she attempts and merely point out time and time again how horrible her being president would be.

You seem to want to take to task the people that point out the ridiculousness of her statements and hypocrisy ,but not the ones that buy it.

Like the morons who paid hundreds of dollars to watch her give a $100k dollar speech that was so nuanced and complicated that she needed to write notes on her own hand.

by **pacino** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 15:50:00

I just love that she used the word 'kook' to describe those with liberal views. So choice.

We should really bring back using the phrase 'choice' for things. It's choice.

by **uncle milt** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 15:50:38

pacino wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:Hate probably isn't fair - obsession is.

I'll just put it out there:

Palin is the left's straw(wo)man and we'll never stop hearing about her because she gins up the left more than the right. She's Ann Coulter with a dimwitted middle-America sounding accent that grates on the ears of anyone who lives in an important part of the country (in terms of the grass-roots). She's an absolute gift.

When you stop being obsessed with her, she'll stop appearing in news articles and blog entries.

We're not the ones going to see her, so please with this 'echo-chamber' bs. 35% of the electorate is obsessed with her, yes...the ones who go see her, buy her shtick and her book and watch her on tv. Not us, the ones that laugh at the ridiculous crap she attempts and merely point out time and time again how horrible her being president would be.

You seem to want to take to task the people that point out the ridiculousness of her statements and hypocrisy ,but not the ones that buy it.

[echo chamber liberal snob pomegranate-infused high five]whap[/echo chamber liberal snob pomegranate-infused high five]

by **dajafi** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 15:58:59

Whoever is more responsible for her staying in the limelight, I think it's pretty clear that Palin helps move product and motivate activists across the political spectrum. I don't claim to know the cause/effect relationship, but so long as that's the case, you'll keep hearing about her.

For us, um, kooks who'd rather talk about deficits and policy and worry about the opportunity cost of the obsession with this person, that's not a happy thought. But I'm guilty of it too: I've probably spent more time today reading about her speech last night than I have doing work. (If it wasn't her, though, it'd be something else. I wish there was more even semi-interesting baseball writing out there at the moment.)

by **VoxOrion** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 16:02:29

pacino wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:Hate probably isn't fair - obsession is.

I'll just put it out there:

Palin is the left's straw(wo)man and we'll never stop hearing about her because she gins up the left more than the right. She's Ann Coulter with a dimwitted middle-America sounding accent that grates on the ears of anyone who lives in an important part of the country (in terms of the grass-roots). She's an absolute gift.

When you stop being obsessed with her, she'll stop appearing in news articles and blog entries.

We're not the ones going to see her, so please with this 'echo-chamber' bs. 35% of the electorate is obsessed with her, yes...the ones who go see her, buy her shtick and her book and watch her on tv. Not us, the ones that laugh at the ridiculous crap she attempts and merely point out time and time again how horrible her being president would be.

You seem to want to take to task the people that point out the ridiculousness of her statements and hypocrisy ,but not the ones that buy it.

Oh, with the righteous indignation already. There are like, three regular posters in this thread, at most, who don't agree with everything you do except around the margins. The most regular of those posters doesn't even talk about values and should be's, he's most interested in positions and voting patterns. How may posters pop up out of the woodwork whenever Palin is mentioned and have little to say otherwise? I count at least three today.

It's not 35% of the electorate and you know it (or you don't know it because you aren't reading enough, I don't know) - less than 22% of Americans even identify themselves as Republican!

How many viewers does it take to make a cable TV news show appearance a hit? One million? One and a half? The highest rated cable news show doesn't even draw two million viewers. That's what percentage of the American public? How many books does one have to sell to be a NYT best seller? 700,000? How many did she sell, double that? Step outside of the politics focus for a moment and look at the big picture. Only ideologues and political geeks care about her. She isn't destroying America. Think for a moment and you'll recognize how over the top that idea is.

I'm not taking you to task for pointing out the "ridiculousness" of her statements, I'm taking you to task for the ideological/editorial selective outrage at her appearances and statements (and the childish tough guy responses to what she says - for which I am officially NOT accusing you of ever doing, to the best of my knowledge).

She's a straw-man, you need her. Every time she speaks a potential Republican voter dies. She does you more good than me any day of the week.

by **Philly the Kid** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 18:18:55

VoxOrion wrote:
pacino wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:Hate probably isn't fair - obsession is.

I'll just put it out there:

Palin is the left's straw(wo)man and we'll never stop hearing about her because she gins up the left more than the right. She's Ann Coulter with a dimwitted middle-America sounding accent that grates on the ears of anyone who lives in an important part of the country (in terms of the grass-roots). She's an absolute gift.

When you stop being obsessed with her, she'll stop appearing in news articles and blog entries.

We're not the ones going to see her, so please with this 'echo-chamber' bs. 35% of the electorate is obsessed with her, yes...the ones who go see her, buy her shtick and her book and watch her on tv. Not us, the ones that laugh at the ridiculous crap she attempts and merely point out time and time again how horrible her being president would be.

You seem to want to take to task the people that point out the ridiculousness of her statements and hypocrisy ,but not the ones that buy it.

Oh, with the righteous indignation already. There are like, three regular posters in this thread, at most, who don't agree with everything you do except around the margins. The most regular of those posters doesn't even talk about values and should be's, he's most interested in positions and voting patterns. How may posters pop up out of the woodwork whenever Palin is mentioned and have little to say otherwise? I count at least three today.

It's not 35% of the electorate and you know it (or you don't know it because you aren't reading enough, I don't know) - less than 22% of Americans even identify themselves as Republican!

How many viewers does it take to make a cable TV news show appearance a hit? One million? One and a half? The highest rated cable news show doesn't even draw two million viewers. That's what percentage of the American public? How many books does one have to sell to be a NYT best seller? 700,000? How many did she sell, double that? Step outside of the politics focus for a moment and look at the big picture. Only ideologues and political geeks care about her. She isn't destroying America. Think for a moment and you'll recognize how over the top that idea is.

I'm not taking you to task for pointing out the "ridiculousness" of her statements, I'm taking you to task for the ideological/editorial selective outrage at her appearances and statements (and the childish tough guy responses to what she says - for which I am officially NOT accusing you of ever doing, to the best of my knowledge).

She's a straw-man, you need her. Every time she speaks a potential Republican voter dies. She does you more good than me any day of the week.

No, she's not destroying America, and no real 'grown-up' takes her seriously and she could never win a major office like White House. But she serves an important purpose for the extreme reactionaries -- especially the ones with the hate on Gays, Jews, people of color, xenophobic bible thumpers... it continues to give them another figure-head. She's mostly a marketable commodity, and as usual, the leaches are making dough off her. That's the reality.

I don't know if liberals and moderates are really making the noize that continues to bouy her. Chicken or egg? She's an idiot so people waste time getting exciting and so she gets more bookings? Or, she's marketable and sellable and there are angles to take to sell ads on TV or books etc. and so let's feed the fury -- then, people of reasonable intelligence go, "are you kidding me"? Why is she getting air-time? Why is she even remotely being legitimized.

She's a best a bad news anchor with talking points. Her pagaent training and haphazard governorship give her just enough to limp forward.

by **phdave** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 18:29:11

jerseyhoya wrote:
phdave wrote:"I believe she'll be a net positive on the McCain campaign"

I think this might have ended up being true, though she probably ended up having something closer to a neutral effect on the ticket. If you think Vox or me or whoever said that was so wrong that the statement is worthy of derision, you're not right.

That's not what I was going for. I was reacting to a post that said that McCain should have been ashamed of himself for Palin. I just wanted to remember what people were saying about her before she was nominated and show that she was being talked about in a much different way before and immediately after the nomination than now.

by **Phan In Phlorida** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 03:59:00

CalvinBall wrote:what is that from? i can see energy and tax. what does the rest of it say?

Inhale... Exhale... Repeat...

by **traderdave** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 09:54:00

kopphanatic wrote:We deride education and science as "arrogance" or "elitism" and we celebrate people that have not really provided meaningful and positive contributions to American society

Absolutely. Your comment reminded me of the article below from Forbes I saw over the weekend highlighting eight millionaire high school dropouts; very responsible reporting there.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/30/millio ... naire.html

We graduate around 75% of our in-going freshman in this country and these guys are going around printing articles for the other 25% saying "Hey, no problem. Jay-Z didn't graduate HS and he is a megastar."

As for Palin, I saw MSNBC was broadcasting it and made a very conscious decision to avoid it at all costs. I am not the brightest bulb in the universe but I actually feel dumber after I listen to her for any more than, say, three seconds. I did catch a couple of highlights on Morning Joe this morning and it is soooooo obvious that for somebody who is supposed to be so "Mavrick-y" she panders like there is no tomorrow.

As to the crib notes, that HAS to be a photoshop job, right? I mean the most recent Republican Vice Presidential nominee did not actually write talking points on her hand with a Bic, did she?

by **drsmooth** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:33:34

VoxOrion wrote:It's not 35% of the electorate and you know it (or you don't know it because you aren't reading enough, I don't know) - less than 22% of Americans even identify themselves as Republican!

How many viewers does it take to make a cable TV news show appearance a hit? One million? One and a half? The highest rated cable news show doesn't even draw two million viewers. That's what percentage of the American public? How many books does one have to sell to be a NYT best seller? 700,000? How many did she sell, double that? Step outside of the politics focus for a moment and look at the big picture. Only ideologues and political geeks care about her. She isn't destroying America. Think for a moment and you'll recognize how over the top that idea is.

Not to digress, but the drift of the cultural soap bubble is frequently shaped by a very small number of voices.

In a vast sea of indifference, the attitudes of small numbers of people have outsized influence on whatever gets labeled as culture, "society's preferences", etc.

by **VoxOrion** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 14:15:16

I agree. A small number of voices are made hysterical by Sarah Palin, forcing the rest of us to endure them, and her, too often.

by **VoxOrion** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 15:44:43

Yikes. Murtha just died.

RT @latimes: Breaking: Democratic Rep. John Murtha has died, spokesman says. More soon:
Los Angeles Times - California, L.A., Entertainment and World news ... - latimes.com

Archived

Truck Yourself, This is the NEW Politics Thread