Gotcha, thanks. NJ's weird structure is fascinating to me.

Wow. It was a joke.

IMO it's the perceived job loss (which I'm not sure exists) makes it a less than exciting proposition for someone hoping to be reelected.

I see Rob Andrews and Sweeny every now and then, Ive actually meant to ask them why it's not being considered.

The Nightman Cometh wrote:IMO it's the perceived job loss (which I'm not sure exists) makes it a less than exciting proposition for someone hoping to be reelected.

I see Rob Andrews and Sweeny every now and then, Ive actually meant to ask them why it's not being considered.

Ironically, the SJ Chamber just hosted Sweeney last night and they will be hosting Andrews at the Mansion on Feb 22nd. I might attend their Feb 17th event with Pam Lampitt.

Also, no question that nobody is consolidating unless there is something in it for the suits. The "people" I referred to in my point #2 above probably refers more to the machines than to the public.

Voters reject it too. It's a complete mess. If I get into Rutgers for grad school I might have to write my dissertation about how stupid the state of New Jersey's governmental structure is, and how it is everyone's fault.

jerseyhoya wrote:Voters reject it too. It's a complete mess. If I get into Rutgers for grad school I might have to write my dissertation about how stupid the state of New Jersey's governmental structure is, and how it is everyone's fault.

Hey, I'm not taking any blame for it. Make sure you post a copy of your dissertation when you are done; that would be a fantastic read, I'm sure.

There's like a 0.01% chance that this will all happen, but if it does I will make sure to post it.

ABCNEWS.com Breaking News Headline at this instant

"Democrat Scott Brown Sworn In As Junior Senator From Massachusetts"

Did I miss something?

SQUIRE

I grew up in a borough of 1800 sandwiched between a borough of 3500, a city of 85k and two different townships totalling 5 and 25k. All of them are within 5 minutes of each other, if there's traffic. PA has municipality-itis as well.

I know I've told this story before but I live in a borough of about 4k people that is completely surrounded on all sides by a township of 23k people. When a town council member proposed sharing police services with the larger township, something that would save the average home a few hundred dollars a year in property taxes, the reaction was so angry that they tried to get the council member recalled. There were tons of signs around on people's lawns "Our Cops = Our Town." I think I get more worked up about this than I do any other political issue. I hate people.

yes, my borough was completely carved out of the township around it because it was the only part built up 'back in the day'.


the repeal of DADT is really making John McCain look foolish.

I actually understand your fellow citizens' point of view, JH. I live in a borough of approximately 15k and a few years ago we agreed to share police services with a neighboring town with whom we had several other existing shared services relationships. We unofficially ended the agreement last year (I think we are still providing while they search for a replacement) because our officers spent most of their time in the neighboring town.

jerseyhoya wrote:Voters reject it too. It's a complete mess. If I get into Rutgers for grad school I might have to write my dissertation about how stupid the state of New Jersey's governmental structure is, and how it is everyone's fault.

Then you should go to the Bloustein school, not Rutgers Poli Sci.

Like the mainstream media, political science pays little attention to anything other than national politics. I've taught state and local government, and the text books are often nothing more than expansions of a chapter in a national government textbook. It's really a a shame, since on a day to day basis local and state governments have a profound impact.

As far as NJ is concerned, and consolidation in general--it's not a magic bullet. If there are efficiencies, they are going to be found on a case by case basis. I suppose you could eliminate some absurdities like "sending school districts" that have a school board and maybe save some money. I know that my friend the mayor and now Congressional candidate Mike Halfacre was cautious about consolidating services, though Fair Haven now does share police dispatch service with several nearby towns.

Part of the problem is county spending--if there's any level of government that most people have no clue about, it's at the county. I'd wager that most counties in NJ are controlled by a party machine. These machines operate largely out of public view. The people who vote on the taxes are different from the people who pay them.

I'd say consolidation isn't nearly as big an issue as corruption. And if I were Christie, I'd make sure that at least once a week, some local pol is charged with corruption.

How can you say New Jersey's problem is corruption, but not the ridiculous amount of government entities in the state? They are directly related. There's no way around that.

By the way, I grew up in a town that had a K-8 school districts and then went to another regional school district for high school. The next town over also had a K-8 school district, and then to the same high school. So, for an area with a total population of about 15k, there are three school districts, three superintendents, and so forth. However, it's not entirely clear that consolidation would really save much money--you'd probably have at least two assistant superintendents in such a district.

The thing is as a borough inside of the township, the township cops already regularly drive through the borough. The major roads that go through the township also go through the borough, so to get from one end of the township to the other on patrol, they have to go through our land anyway. Also I'm pretty sure the agreement would have mandated all cops from the borough stayed on, and the police force would be allowed to shrink gradually with retirements. I don't know how it could be more of a no brainer, but it was really unpopular.

We share some services successfully. The Lenape Regional High School District has four schools that cover a bunch of the townships and boroughs in the region just fine.

The Nightman Cometh wrote:How can you say New Jersey's problem is corruption, but not the ridiculous amount of government entities in the state? They are directly related. There's no way around that.

But the corruption is found at the county level, which are already consolidated governments. That's my point. I doubt there's much graft in Medford Lakes or Glen Ridge. Or even Cherry Hill. There's plenty of corruption in Essex an and Ocean Counties though.

jerseyhoya wrote:I know I've told this story before but I live in a borough of about 4k people that is completely surrounded on all sides by a township of 23k people. When a town council member proposed sharing police services with the larger township, something that would save the average home a few hundred dollars a year in property taxes, the reaction was so angry that they tried to get the council member recalled. There were tons of signs around on people's lawns "Our Cops = Our Town." I think I get more worked up about this than I do any other political issue. I hate people.

Well, duh... can't mingle with teh outsiders, never know when a border dispute will break out.

Phan In Phlorida wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:I know I've told this story before but I live in a borough of about 4k people that is completely surrounded on all sides by a township of 23k people. When a town council member proposed sharing police services with the larger township, something that would save the average home a few hundred dollars a year in property taxes, the reaction was so angry that they tried to get the council member recalled. There were tons of signs around on people's lawns "Our Cops = Our Town." I think I get more worked up about this than I do any other political issue. I hate people.

Well, duh... can't mingle with teh outsiders, never know when a border dispute will break out.

Have you read under the dome yet?

So I posted earlier about watching a subcommittee hearing on banking regulations being boring.

Man I am watching the first half of the hearing that I missed this morning, and sparks just flew.

The weenie lawyer who was helping some foreign despot skirt our banking laws gets asked some question by Levin, and the lawyer invokes his 5th Amendment rights. 2nd question, pleads the 5th. Levin dismisses him. Then Levin rescinds the dismissal, and asks if he is planning on invoking the 5th Amendment on every potential question. The lawyer says no, I'd be happy to answer general questions, and is clearly playing on Levin's use of the word 'every' and thinks he's being rather clever. Apparently this was the wrong answer. Levin snaps at him, says he's not dismissed, but his testimony is adjourned and he will be deposed because he is not completely invoking to protect himself. The lawyer, realizing he's stepped in a big pile of poop, asks a moment to consult with counsel. After whispering, he says he would like to change his answer in a really pathetic voice. I think he might have actually pooped his pants at some point during the exchange.

The lesson here is don't be a smart ass, pedantic piece of shit when you're already in hot water testifying before an angry Senator.