POLITICS <== Post Your Dumb Opinions Here

Postby FTN » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:42:59

Im not sure whether to laugh or cry over this...

Aug. 5, 2008--"Uppity" used to be the preferred term for Negroes who didn't know their place. There was a time when it was regularly applied to any number of black men and women who strived to be more than day laborers, nannies or sharecroppers.

The GOP, ever aware of the connotative power of words, has steered clear of the direct usage of that loaded term. When they speak of Barack Obama—a man in pursuit of the most lofty of prizes—they simply use the words that define the term. Snobbish. Arrogant. Presumptuous.

Obama's opponent, sensing an opening, launched a campaign ad last week, in which the underlying theme, "look at the uppity black man," will no doubt resonate with a certain segment of the audience. McCain's ad interspersed photos of Britney Spears and Paris Hilton—two icons of vapidity—with a smug-looking Obama surrounded by throngs of adoring white people (liberal Europeans).

Conservative Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer summed up the sentiment that provided the basis for the McCain ad in a July 18 piece titled "The Audacity of Vanity," in which he criticized Obama for speaking at the Bradenburg Gate and ridiculed him as "a man of profoundly limited achievement." He went on to suggest: "For the first few months of the campaign, the question about Obama was: Who is he? The question now is: Who does he think he is? We are getting to know. Redeemer of our uninvolved, uninformed lives. Lord of the seas. And more. As he said on victory night, his rise marks the moment when 'our planet began to heal.' As I recall—I'm no expert on this—Jesus practiced his healing just on the sick. Obama operates on a larger canvas."


//

For now, the greater public doesn't appear to be buying it. In the latest national CNN poll, about the same percentage—one third—of respondents believed both Obama and McCain were arrogant.

The fact that the mainstream media has embraced the uppity-Obama storyline is further evidence of the right's ability to advance whatever preposterous storyline it chooses, despite its persistent whining about the liberal media.


//

Forward to the present: By feigning indignation and accusing Obama of "playing the race card," McCain returns to the politics of expediency. No, McCain didn't run that ad because he doesn't like black people. No one really believes that anyway. So the "race card" retort is just a straw-man, debating tactic—that is, misrepresenting an opponent's argument and then shooting that argument down.

McCain ran the ad because he knows there are a lot of white people who are inclined to believe the worst in a black politician. (Ask any reporter who's been on the campaign trail what many blue-collar white voters in places like Pennsylvania, Florida and Ohio are saying about Obama.) That's political expediency. Not racism.

McCain employs highly skilled media people. They know exactly the kind of reaction his ad would evoke from a certain segment of the electorate. Maureen Dowd said it well in her Sunday column this week, pointing out that in a recent New York Times poll that only 31 percent of white voters said they had a favorable opinion of Obama compared to 83 percent of blacks who did. She drew the conclusion that "the prejudice is visceral: Many Americans, especially blue collar, still feel uneasy about the Senate's exotic shooting star."

Republican accusations of elitism against Democrats are nothing new (the John Kerry wind-surfing hullabaloo being the latest example in a presidential election). But they will take on added resonance this year against Obama, a candidate whom many voters will be already inclined to dislike.

Is he? Probably, yes. Then again, what politician isn't a little bit of all three? It takes a special kind of gall to suggest that you should be the leader of the free world. John McCain, who has run for president twice, should know that as well as anyone.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:43:25

The blogs at the Politico are pretty good. If there's something worth watching, they usually have it.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

http://www.politico.com/blogs/scorecard/

Also, here's another ad from that race. Christ.

Steve Cohen is one of the most liberal members of the House of Representatives.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVIhA7-csao&e[/youtube]

Memphis Commercial Appeal editorial on the ad.

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Postby dajafi » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:07:02

I think my biggest disappointment with this race is that both sides not only are running essentially negative campaigns, but are running the same campaigns as EVERY SINGLE OTHER TIME. Once again, the Democrat is arrogant and a flip-flopper, and the Republican is an economically clueless warmonger. (Okay, the warmonger angle is a little bit new--you couldn't really accuse Bush of that in 2000.)

My only other thought about the campaign right now is that I'd like for one of the presidential debates to include third-party candidates, at least Barr and Nader and maybe the other ones.

This might seem to fly in the face of my general disdain ("loathing") for Nader, but the bigger principle is that presidential campaigns offer a unique teachable moment to better engage the public in a national conversation, and to broaden the reach of democracy itself. I don't think libertarianism as articulated by the party of that name is at all practical, but their ideas are valid and deserve a wider hearing from non-geek obsessives. And Nader, douche that he is, does make an important critique of the system as it stands now. (He's just the worst possible individual to make that critique, surfacing as he does every four years solely for this purpose.)

But it's never going to happen, because the two parties control the debates, and the media goes along, and nobody really cares about a better-informed or more engaged citizenry; actually that prospect just presents a huge hassle to--not to sound like PtK, but it's true--the permanent governing class.

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Postby Laexile » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:26:43

jerseyhoya wrote:We'll see.

And in other news, a primary in TN-09 is getting quite scrappy. This ad stopped about a half step short of calling Steve Cohen a big Jew.

That ad may have stopped short, but Rev. Robert Poindexter hasn't been ambiguous. Here is the flyer. If Republicans were conducting anti-Semitic attacks on Cohen the Democratic leadership would rush to his side and publicize it nationally. I suppose it's no big deal since it's the local African-American Democratic machine.
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Postby Woody » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:36:40

Posting the image from LA's link, because it's just so... so... I don't even know

Image
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?

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Postby jamiethekiller » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:42:09

thats kinda mind blowing

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Postby Phan In Phlorida » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:56:26

Woody wrote:Posting the image from LA's link, because it's just so... so... I don't even know

Was the intent to be as offensive on as many levels possible?
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Postby Woody » Wed Aug 06, 2008 13:03:18

Phan In Phlorida wrote:
Woody wrote:Posting the image from LA's link, because it's just so... so... I don't even know

Was the intent to be as offensive on as many levels possible?


Do you mean my intent in posting it or the intent of the ad? The former, no; the latter, I have no idea. But yeah, that ad is extremly offensive.
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?

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Postby Wolfgang622 » Wed Aug 06, 2008 13:04:27

That's got to be coming from the perspective of one of those Churches that claims that African-Americans are one of the twelve lost tribes of Israel, along with 11 other minority groups (whites and actual Jews need not apply). I've gotten their literature on the subway. It's despicable, and this Nikki whoever person whould denounce this ad, along with the local and national Democratic parties.

That said, one question does bother me a little: why did Representative Cohen vote AGAINST removing a statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest if he represents a predominantly or signifcantly black district? Not very politcally savvy of him.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Aug 06, 2008 13:07:08

of course, the fliers, as you can see from the bottom, comes from Murfreesboro, TN, it's a exurb of Nashville. which is nowhere near Cohen's CD. And Murfreesboro also happens to be about 80% white.
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Postby Phan In Phlorida » Wed Aug 06, 2008 13:12:03

Woody wrote:
Phan In Phlorida wrote:
Woody wrote:Posting the image from LA's link, because it's just so... so... I don't even know

Was the intent to be as offensive on as many levels possible?


Do you mean my intent in posting it or the intent of the ad? The former, no; the latter, I have no idea. But yeah, that ad is extremly offensive.

The latter, of course.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Aug 06, 2008 13:22:16

Q: Rev. George Brooks, the minister from Murfreesboro who distributed the flier earlier this year stating that "Steve Cohen and the Jews Hate Jesus," is still at it. Can you make him stop, or be more forceful about that?

Tinker: I don't know how many times I've addressed it. I've denounced it. I don't know this person. I've never met this person. I'm not anti-Semitic. This has nothing to do with religion. I've never raised this issue. Don't intend to raise it. I've disavowed it, said my faith teaches me to love everybody. I don't need to beat up on somebody else's faith. My pastor said to just run as a thoroughbred. You just run with blinders on.


Tinker denounced the fliers. The guy is a black pastor though, and a self described Tinker supporter. I think it's a pretty safe bet he had them made with the intentions of helping her out. It's also safe to assume he has a few screws loose.

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Postby lethal » Wed Aug 06, 2008 13:23:11

jerseyhoya wrote:We'll see.

And in other news, a primary in TN-09 is getting quite scrappy. This ad stopped about a half step short of calling Steve Cohen a big Jew.


Is that the old Ford seat?

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Postby seke2 » Wed Aug 06, 2008 13:26:06

In reference to the KKK guy and the park...

Wikipedia wrote:Forrest became associated with the Ku Klux Klan movement, but he officially denied participation. Upon learning of the Klan and its goal to reinstate the "true" Southern leaders, Forrest supposedly remarked, "That's a good thing; that's a damn good thing. We can use that to keep the niggers in their place." (Historians disagree as to whether this quote is real.) Delegates at an 1867 KKK convention in Nashville named him the organization's honorary Grand Wizard, or leader-in-chief.

In an 1868 interview by a Cincinnati newspaper, Forrest claimed that the Klan had 550,000 members in the Southern states. He said he sympathized with them and could muster thousands of men himself.

In the interview Forrest described the Klan as "a protective political military organization...The members are sworn to recognize the government of the United States...Its objects originally were protection against Loyal Leagues and the Grand Army of the Republic..." Historians, however, have classified the Klan as a kind of guerrilla group, insurgents who refused to accept the power changes of defeat, and carried on the Civil War by other means.

The Klan used Forrest's name in recruiting. In 1869, Forrest, disagreeing with its increasingly violent tactics, ordered the Klan to disband. He stated it was "being perverted from its original honorable and patriotic purposes, becoming injurious instead of subservient to the public peace."

In the Congressional investigation on Klan activities in 1871,[22] the committee concluded that Forrest's involvement with the Klan was limited to trying to get it to disband. They determined there was no evidence that he had founded or led the Klan.


And then later...
Wikipedia wrote:On July 5, 1875, Forrest became the first white man to speak to the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association, a civil rights group whose members were freedmen. In his short speech, he stated blacks had the right to vote for any candidates they wanted and that the role of blacks should be elevated. He ended the speech by kissing the cheek of one of the daughters of one of the Pole-Bearer Memphis Appeal members, evinces Forrest's racial open-mindedness that seemed to have been growing in him. As reported in the contemporary pages of the Memphis Appeal.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest
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Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Aug 06, 2008 13:26:39

lethal wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:We'll see.

And in other news, a primary in TN-09 is getting quite scrappy. This ad stopped about a half step short of calling Steve Cohen a big Jew.


Is that the old Ford seat?


Yeah. Cohen only won the Dem primary last time because there were numerous black candidates who split the vote, so he could squeak through with a number in the 20s I think.

He is not getting help from the DCCC, which I think is pretty damn absurd.

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Postby Laexile » Wed Aug 06, 2008 13:56:34

jerseyhoya wrote:
Q: Rev. George Brooks, the minister from Murfreesboro who distributed the flier earlier this year stating that "Steve Cohen and the Jews Hate Jesus," is still at it. Can you make him stop, or be more forceful about that?

Tinker: I don't know how many times I've addressed it. I've denounced it. I don't know this person. I've never met this person. I'm not anti-Semitic. This has nothing to do with religion. I've never raised this issue. Don't intend to raise it. I've disavowed it, said my faith teaches me to love everybody. I don't need to beat up on somebody else's faith. My pastor said to just run as a thoroughbred. You just run with blinders on.


Tinker denounced the fliers. The guy is a black pastor though, and a self described Tinker supporter. I think it's a pretty safe bet he had them made with the intentions of helping her out. It's also safe to assume he has a few screws loose.

So Tinker disapproves of the flier, but approves a message that says that Steve Cohen is a racist who supports the KKK? I guess her ad is subtler in its anti-Semitism. It reinforces the flier's message. For many years rumors have circulated among the African-American community that Jews were the biggest slave owners and that Jews were at the center of conspiracies involving AIDS and Crack. When it was initially reported that Jesse Jackson made the "Hymietown" remark he said that it was an invention of the Jews to try to defeat him. They are perpetuating the idea that the Jewish people are out to get African Americans. I've never contributed to a Democrat but I'm tempted to do so now.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Aug 06, 2008 14:03:11

The primary is tomorrow, so no use wasting your money now.

Her ads are pretty bad, though.

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Postby Monkeyboy » Wed Aug 06, 2008 15:18:48

Bucky wrote:They were targeting that particular guy for some reason or another. As soon as both cops made him, they started toward him. I bet - almost guarantee- something happened up the road. Cops have radios, ya know.

Not saying it was right. Just that there's a lot more to this incident than is on the video.

Ask 1- you can make a video tell a certain story if you edit it just right. :wink:



I'm coming to this conversation late, but I tend to agree with this. I doubt the cop just randomly picked a guy to pummel.

I do have an issue with the cop's behavior, however. There are correct and incorrect ways to make an arrest or detain a subject. The cop made no effort to get the cyclist to stop with normal force. Nobody can tell me that he couldn't have gotten that guy off that bike without having to crush him like a receiver coming over the middle. So stopping the guy was most likely warrented (though there's no way to tell from the video), but the manner of the arrest was certainly not. Charge the cyclist for whatever he did, and then charge the cop for using excessive force. Way too often people seem to feel the need to pick sides when the truth is both parties are wrong.
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Postby Monkeyboy » Wed Aug 06, 2008 15:29:29

Philly the Kid wrote:This is just my own gut feeling and perhaps the conventions will change it up, but I feel like the Obama-mania is going or already tiring and that it favors McCain to go longer. As long as McCain doesn't keep doing these really weird ads and if he tries to play up the image LAx attributed to him of being one-on-one in small town meetings... I think he can win over a lot of older white America which usually means victory. This without the help from cheating.



I agree that the Obama mania is tiring, which is why he's being put on TV constantly -- to make sure it happens, and McCain, who's only chance is for the media to ignore him, is being placed in the background and mostly, well, ignored. The media is still getting their talking points from Rove, I'm sure.

I grew up in the 70's and remember the media leaning pretty hard to the left, but I don't remember anything close to what I'm seeing from Murdoch and the rest of the media henchmen. Even the AP has now gone down the rabbit's hole.
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Postby Wolfgang622 » Wed Aug 06, 2008 15:39:31

seke2 wrote:In reference to the KKK guy and the park...

Wikipedia wrote:Forrest became associated with the Ku Klux Klan movement, but he officially denied participation. Upon learning of the Klan and its goal to reinstate the "true" Southern leaders, Forrest supposedly remarked, "That's a good thing; that's a damn good thing. We can use that to keep the (I'm a stupid racist) in their place." (Historians disagree as to whether this quote is real.) Delegates at an 1867 KKK convention in Nashville named him the organization's honorary Grand Wizard, or leader-in-chief.

In an 1868 interview by a Cincinnati newspaper, Forrest claimed that the Klan had 550,000 members in the Southern states. He said he sympathized with them and could muster thousands of men himself.

In the interview Forrest described the Klan as "a protective political military organization...The members are sworn to recognize the government of the United States...Its objects originally were protection against Loyal Leagues and the Grand Army of the Republic..." Historians, however, have classified the Klan as a kind of guerrilla group, insurgents who refused to accept the power changes of defeat, and carried on the Civil War by other means.

The Klan used Forrest's name in recruiting. In 1869, Forrest, disagreeing with its increasingly violent tactics, ordered the Klan to disband. He stated it was "being perverted from its original honorable and patriotic purposes, becoming injurious instead of subservient to the public peace."

In the Congressional investigation on Klan activities in 1871,[22] the committee concluded that Forrest's involvement with the Klan was limited to trying to get it to disband. They determined there was no evidence that he had founded or led the Klan.


And then later...
Wikipedia wrote:On July 5, 1875, Forrest became the first white man to speak to the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association, a civil rights group whose members were freedmen. In his short speech, he stated blacks had the right to vote for any candidates they wanted and that the role of blacks should be elevated. He ended the speech by kissing the cheek of one of the daughters of one of the Pole-Bearer Memphis Appeal members, evinces Forrest's racial open-mindedness that seemed to have been growing in him. As reported in the contemporary pages of the Memphis Appeal.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest


Suddenly, I want to learn more about Nathan Bedford Forrest.
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