Now that the Camden Riversharks are no more, any chance at all of the Phillies moving the Williamsport team to Camden?

GrizzledVeteran wrote:Now that the Camden Riversharks are no more, any chance at all of the Phillies moving the Williamsport team to Camden?

Hearing Westchester (NY)

1 wrote:

GrizzledVeteran wrote:Now that the Camden Riversharks are no more, any chance at all of the Phillies moving the Williamsport team to Camden?

Hearing Westchester (NY)

where are you hearing this?

BSGmemez.it

Well hell. I added a sentence to this post and somehow ended up posting a second time.

So I'll just use this place to say the Phils might be pretty good next season. Lots of youngsters and more in the pipeline. I hope some of them turn out to be really good so it won't matter too much who the pitching coach is.

1 wrote:

GrizzledVeteran wrote:Now that the Camden Riversharks are no more, any chance at all of the Phillies moving the Williamsport team to Camden?

Hearing Westchester (NY)

Count me intrigued by this news

Westchester is a NY county of no distinguishing characteristics whatsoever, unless you count unusually high rates of adolescent psychiatric health problems. White Plains is its most significant population concentration.

Now if they locate the team in Sleepy Hollow, or something like that, now we're talking

He's fucking around.

smitty wrote:

Shore wrote:

smitty wrote:

Slowhand wrote:

Shore wrote:Why is Bob McClure here still?

Seriously. What has this guy done to deserve to return?

What hasn't he done?

Succeed.

He was pitching coach in KC for 6 years, and they sucked every year. He's been gone 4, and they've been to the playoffs twice, and are about to go to the Series.
He was pitching coach in Boston for about 8 months. They came in last, had a scandal in which someone leaked clubhouse stuff to the media, and it's widely speculated that it was him. They won the Series the next year.
He's been pitching coach here for 2 years. We've come in last and last, and one of our greatest players ever bitched him out on the field mid-game. Those finishes put McClure at 6 last place finishes in 9 years, with 3 4th-place out of 5 in the other years. The other teams saw great success after he left - maybe that'll work for us.

If we were going to point at something McClure does well, what would that be?

The Red Sox finished last for two years now. Probably the bat boy's fault.

Kansas City sucked for 16 years before finally getting good three years ago. They lost 90 the year after McClure left. I guess you can blame him or the bullpen coach for those 16 seasons. They collected tons of high draft picks and many of them finally started hitting and then got good. The pitching coach should get credit for that I guess.

The Phillies are bad because of big contracts to no good player. I thought that was on Amaro but I guess not. It's gotta be the pitching coach.

What does McClure do well? Who knows? What do the pitching coaches on the playoff teams do well? Again, who knows? Pitching coaches sometimes help some of the pitchers on their teams. Sometimes the same coaches hurt a few of their guys. Somebody close to the club might know if the pitching coach is good or not.

Remember that pitching coach for the Braves who was supposed to be a genius? He was. Until Maddox, Glavine and Smoltz left. Then he wasn't so good.

Bad teams get high draft picks and other goodies. Many of them improve, often all at once. Changing pitching coaches may help sometimes. But really good players and pitchers help a lot more.

I don't care if the Phils keep McClure. I would probably like someone else. But I hesitate to blame lousy teams on the pitching coach. The ticket takers are more likely suspects.

a philly the kid-esque post written in smitty's posting voice. so nice he posted it twice. lock thread.

I fixed the mess I made I believe.

smitty wrote:

smitty wrote:

Shore wrote:

smitty wrote:

Slowhand wrote:

Shore wrote:Why is Bob McClure here still?

Seriously. What has this guy done to deserve to return?

What hasn't he done?

Succeed.

He was pitching coach in KC for 6 years, and they sucked every year. He's been gone 4, and they've been to the playoffs twice, and are about to go to the Series.
He was pitching coach in Boston for about 8 months. They came in last, had a scandal in which someone leaked clubhouse stuff to the media, and it's widely speculated that it was him. They won the Series the next year.
He's been pitching coach here for 2 years. We've come in last and last, and one of our greatest players ever bitched him out on the field mid-game. Those finishes put McClure at 6 last place finishes in 9 years, with 3 4th-place out of 5 in the other years. The other teams saw great success after he left - maybe that'll work for us.

If we were going to point at something McClure does well, what would that be?

The Red Sox finished last for two years now. Probably the bat boy's fault.

Kansas City sucked for 16 years before finally getting good three years ago. They lost 90 the year after McClure left. I guess you can blame him or the bullpen coach for those 16 seasons. They collected tons of high draft picks and many of them finally started hitting and then got good. The pitching coach should get credit for that I guess.

The Phillies are bad because of big contracts to no good player. I thought that was on Amaro but I guess not. It's gotta be the pitching coach.

What does McClure do well? Who knows? What do the pitching coaches on the playoff teams do well? Again, who knows? Pitching coaches sometimes help some of the pitchers on their teams. Sometimes the same coaches hurt a few of their guys. Somebody close to the club might know if the pitching coach is good or not.

Remember that pitching coach for the Braves who was supposed to be a genius? He was. Until Maddox, Glavine and Smoltz left. Then he wasn't so good.

Bad teams get high draft picks and other goodies. Many of them improve, often all at once. Changing pitching coaches may help sometimes. But really good players and pitchers help a lot more.

I don't care if the Phils keep McClure. I would probably like someone else. But I hesitate to blame lousy teams on the pitching coach. The ticket takers are more likely suspects.

Everything matters, smitty. Everything. And the "ticket takers are more likely suspects" is just bullshit. No, ALL of a team's problems can't be blamed on a pitching coach. Or a manager, or a GM. But a crappy pitching coach can certainly help create a crappy pitching staff, and NO ONE wins with a crappy pitching staff.

The Phillies lost for a lot of reasons. Lack of talent is certainly #1. But we had a pretty good stable of young arms in the bullpen last year, and all but Giles have gone to shit. AT LEAST some of that is on McClure.

Instead of listing the things that aren't his fault, and the other people whose fault it might be, how about you post one thing that would make someone think that re-signing
McClure is a good idea. Or even a not-bad idea.

I hate mcclure. But, he's gone after next season, so just have to wait for another vet to step up and point out what a dim bulb he probably is.

Shore wrote:

smitty wrote:

smitty wrote:

Shore wrote:

smitty wrote:

Slowhand wrote:

Shore wrote:Why is Bob McClure here still?

Seriously. What has this guy done to deserve to return?

What hasn't he done?

Succeed.

He was pitching coach in KC for 6 years, and they sucked every year. He's been gone 4, and they've been to the playoffs twice, and are about to go to the Series.
He was pitching coach in Boston for about 8 months. They came in last, had a scandal in which someone leaked clubhouse stuff to the media, and it's widely speculated that it was him. They won the Series the next year.
He's been pitching coach here for 2 years. We've come in last and last, and one of our greatest players ever bitched him out on the field mid-game. Those finishes put McClure at 6 last place finishes in 9 years, with 3 4th-place out of 5 in the other years. The other teams saw great success after he left - maybe that'll work for us.

If we were going to point at something McClure does well, what would that be?

The Red Sox finished last for two years now. Probably the bat boy's fault.

Kansas City sucked for 16 years before finally getting good three years ago. They lost 90 the year after McClure left. I guess you can blame him or the bullpen coach for those 16 seasons. They collected tons of high draft picks and many of them finally started hitting and then got good. The pitching coach should get credit for that I guess.

The Phillies are bad because of big contracts to no good player. I thought that was on Amaro but I guess not. It's gotta be the pitching coach.

What does McClure do well? Who knows? What do the pitching coaches on the playoff teams do well? Again, who knows? Pitching coaches sometimes help some of the pitchers on their teams. Sometimes the same coaches hurt a few of their guys. Somebody close to the club might know if the pitching coach is good or not.

Remember that pitching coach for the Braves who was supposed to be a genius? He was. Until Maddox, Glavine and Smoltz left. Then he wasn't so good.

Bad teams get high draft picks and other goodies. Many of them improve, often all at once. Changing pitching coaches may help sometimes. But really good players and pitchers help a lot more.

I don't care if the Phils keep McClure. I would probably like someone else. But I hesitate to blame lousy teams on the pitching coach. The ticket takers are more likely suspects.

Everything matters, smitty. Everything. And the "ticket takers are more likely suspects" is just bullshit. No, ALL of a team's problems can't be blamed on a pitching coach. Or a manager, or a GM. But a crappy pitching coach can certainly help create a crappy pitching staff, and NO ONE wins with a crappy pitching staff.

The Phillies lost for a lot of reasons. Lack of talent is certainly #1. But we had a pretty good stable of young arms in the bullpen last year, and all but Giles have gone to shit. AT LEAST some of that is on McClure.

Instead of listing the things that aren't his fault, and the other people whose fault it might be, how about you post one thing that would make someone think that re-signing
McClure is a good idea. Or even a not-bad idea.

I already said, no one here knows what he does do or doesn't do. So I'm certainly not going to list anything regarding how we should resign him. Listing lousy teams with lousy players doesn't prove he was a good or bad PC either.

Not very good pitchers makes a crappy pitching staff. Can a pitching coach make lousy pitchers good? Usually pitching coaches have some success with a few guys and not with others. Except for Johnny Sain, I'm not sure I can name a pitching coach who could consistently get good performances year after year.

No one here knows what McClure does or doesn't do. Can anyone name the five best pitching coaches in the bigs and why they are the best? Last year we had Pappelbon and Giles in the bullpen who did well. We had a broken down DeFratus and a bunch of retreads signed off the junk pile. Some of them threw pretty hard but didn't have good command of their control. Some did O.K. And others didn't. Pretty typical for Reliefers.

Next season they'll have some more young guys out there. That might help. It might be the new GM's job to find a new pitching coach. I'd be all for that. It probably wouldn't hurt.

McClure has been a PC for a lot of lousy teams. That's what you used to show he was a lousy PC. I'm not so sure he was the reason they were lousy. But regardless, there's no reason I can see to keep him either.

smitty wrote:McClure has been a PC for a lot of lousy teams. That's what you used to show he was a lousy PC. I'm not so sure he was the reason they were lousy. But regardless, there's no reason I can see to keep him either.

Because Ray Ripplemyer is not available.

GrizzledVeteran wrote:

smitty wrote:McClure has been a PC for a lot of lousy teams. That's what you used to show he was a lousy PC. I'm not so sure he was the reason they were lousy. But regardless, there's no reason I can see to keep him either.

Because Ray Ripplemyer is not available.

Back in those days, the PC was often the manager's drinking buddy. That was their main job. Didn't Art Fowler always follow Billy Martin wherever he went?