Monkeyboy wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:Kinda pisses me off that the White Sox - who are almost like a perfect comp for the Phillies (old, declining, overpaid) but have much fewer assets in $$$ and talent than the Phillies - have managed to completely reshape their roster this offseason by adding Abreu, Adam Eaton, Avisail Garcia, and Matt Davidson for very little. We just got older.

One of the few positives from this offseason is that nobody can say there weren't other readily available options out there. Amaro just decided to take the wrong options.

Is Matt Davidson any good? Did we have an Addison Reed to trade for him? I really,hope a few of our young reliefers have big seasons. And I'd love to trade one for a good position prospect. But we aren't there right now.

All that aside, I like what the Sox are doing and Amaro could learn from that if he wasn't so smug.

You jest, but I am concerned that he thinks he doesn't need to learn anything. I guess the new "stats" guy may say otherwise, but he continues to troll stats ideas

Monkeyboy wrote:You jest, but I am concerned that he thinks he doesn't need to learn anything. I guess the new "stats" guy may say otherwise, but he continues to troll stats ideas

I have little idea regarding what Amaro really thinks. The Phillies are one of the most, if not the most secretive teams in MLB. There is a theory that a team of average players is a 90 win club. Maybe that's his thing. We sure do have a lot of those guys anyways.

maybe that's their strategy, he sure seems to be going out of his way to collect them. He loves him some old, average players with little upside.

Of course, this will be the year everything falls into place and we somehow rocket to 94 wins and a playoff spot. Then we'll never get rid of him

Monkeyboy wrote:maybe that's their strategy, he sure seems to be going out of his way to collect them. He loves him some old, average players with little upside.

Of course, this will be the year everything falls into place and we somehow rocket to 94 wins and a playoff spot. Then we'll never get rid of him

1983? Maybe. I love to be optimistic every spring because that's how I grew up as a baseball fan. But I sure wish we had some Schmidt, Luzinski, Boone types coming up to take us to the promised land. Also a GM who could get a Garry Maddox for Willie Montanez or a Steve Carlton for Rick wise would be really boss too.

smitty wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:maybe that's their strategy, he sure seems to be going out of his way to collect them. He loves him some old, average players with little upside.

Of course, this will be the year everything falls into place and we somehow rocket to 94 wins and a playoff spot. Then we'll never get rid of him

1983? Maybe. I love to be optimistic every spring because that's how I grew up as a baseball fan. But I sure wish we had some Schmidt, Luzinski, Boone types coming up to take us to the promised land. Also a GM who could get a Garry Maddox for Willie Montanez or a Steve Carlton for Rick wise would be really boss too.

Can Maddox still run? Along with Carlton and Schmidt, he was my favorite player on that team. I saw him at the Richie Ashburn movie, sat right beside him, and he still looked like he could track a few down.

I'll find a way to be optimistic by spring. I was able to feel it last year and I thought last offseason was a complete disaster. I don't think we made ourselves much better, but I don't think we got worse this offseason. With some regression, we should be better. Chances of making the playoffs are low, by not early-1990's low.

Monkeyboy wrote:

smitty wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:maybe that's their strategy, he sure seems to be going out of his way to collect them. He loves him some old, average players with little upside.

Of course, this will be the year everything falls into place and we somehow rocket to 94 wins and a playoff spot. Then we'll never get rid of him

1983? Maybe. I love to be optimistic every spring because that's how I grew up as a baseball fan. But I sure wish we had some Schmidt, Luzinski, Boone types coming up to take us to the promised land. Also a GM who could get a Garry Maddox for Willie Montanez or a Steve Carlton for Rick wise would be really boss too.

Can Maddox still run? Along with Carlton and Schmidt, he was my favorite player on that team. I saw him at the Richie Ashburn movie, sat right beside him, and he still looked like he could track a few down.

I'll find a way to be optimistic by spring. I was able to feel it last year and I thought last offseason was a complete disaster. I don't think we made ourselves much better, but I don't think we got worse this offseason. With some regression, we should be better. Chances of making the playoffs are low, by not early-1990's low.

That Cuban guy is the key. It would be awesome if he was a good pitcher. Lee, Hamels and the commie. Fausto Hernandez finds some magic. Mr. Pettibone is OK. Starting pitching a strength.


It could happen.

Reliefers regress to the awesomeness.

Howard is an RBI man.

Utley is,one of,the,top 2Bmen in MLB.

Ruiz has one good year left in him.

Rollins has a nice year.ould happen.

Asche is pretty good.

It could,happen.

Maybe Revere is a .350 OBP guy who plays a nice CF.

brown is a monster.

It could happen.

94 win team.

It could happen.

smitty wrote:Ruiz has one good year left in him.

good thing we signed him for three!

this thread is some depressing shit, i need to avoid it

But Smitty and I are waxing philosophic about our chances being above zero.

Also I do think some things will go well this year and there will be some nice surprises. There are probably too many question marks to make the playoffs, but some of these things will go right and it will be fun when they do. There are also more interesting players to watch this year. Asche, MAG, and the former Mr. Carmona will be interesting to watch. And the odds say one of our young relievers will finally step forward (they can't all be stiffs). I am much more excited to watch going into this spring than last spring.

pacino wrote:this thread is some depressing shit, i need to avoid it

Better to lose with a plan one agrees with (ie. Sixers) than to do whatever it is the Phillies are doing. I enjoy reading the Sixers thread and reading articles on how bad the Sixers are, but how good they could be set-up for the future.

It's the difference between unproven ability and proven inability. With the former, at least you've got hope.

Werthless wrote:

pacino wrote:this thread is some depressing #$!&@, i need to avoid it

Better to lose with a plan one agrees with (ie. Sixers) than to do whatever it is the Phillies are doing. I enjoy reading the Sixers thread and reading articles on how bad the Sixers are, but how good they could be set-up for the future.

i hate the bad losses but agree with this mentality. at least there's a plan we can see. i dont even know what hte phillies are doing.

They would need to extend the schedule to 200 games for this team to win 94

pacino wrote:

Werthless wrote:

pacino wrote:this thread is some depressing #$!&@, i need to avoid it

Better to lose with a plan one agrees with (ie. Sixers) than to do whatever it is the Phillies are doing. I enjoy reading the Sixers thread and reading articles on how bad the Sixers are, but how good they could be set-up for the future.

i hate the bad losses but agree with this mentality. at least there's a plan we can see. i dont even know what hte phillies are doing.

I disapprove if there's no larger move coming, but no harm has been done. What's the worst thing that happens if Ruiz sucks in 2015 or 2016? We can't afford to overpay in dollars and years for some other team's Ruiz or Salty?

That's not to say those types of moves don't add up or matter, but this time that money would have just gone to waste

Werthless wrote:

pacino wrote:this thread is some depressing #$!&@, i need to avoid it

Better to lose with a plan one agrees with (ie. Sixers) than to do whatever it is the Phillies are doing. I enjoy reading the Sixers thread and reading articles on how bad the Sixers are, but how good they could be set-up for the future.

This. What I think fans seek above all else is hope. Right now the Phillies offer, pretty much, none. They're selling familiarity, I guess, with some Fun at the Old Ballpark--you know they'll be dusting off/updating all Bill Giles' trademark wacky '80s-era promotions this year, and probably for the next few.

A team always should be maximizing its chances to win either near-term or long-term. The Phillies are doing neither, and so the future looks like .450 baseball as far out as one cares to project. It's infuriating and sad in roughly equal measure.

.

Grotewold wrote:

pacino wrote:

Werthless wrote:

pacino wrote:this thread is some depressing #$!&@, i need to avoid it

Better to lose with a plan one agrees with (ie. Sixers) than to do whatever it is the Phillies are doing. I enjoy reading the Sixers thread and reading articles on how bad the Sixers are, but how good they could be set-up for the future.

i hate the bad losses but agree with this mentality. at least there's a plan we can see. i dont even know what hte phillies are doing.

I disapprove if there's no larger move coming, but no harm has been done. What's the worst thing that happens if Ruiz sucks in 2015 or 2016? We can't afford to overpay in dollars and years for some other team's Ruiz or Salty?

That's not to say those types of moves don't add up or matter, but this time that money would have just gone to waste

I think what people are more concerned about is that next year we'll be saying "The worst that happens is player X sucks for 2016 and 2017." I'm more concerned about the approach and the players they're targeting than I am about being sucky/mediocre next year. The latter is a temporary problem; the former may create problems in the long term.


<sorry for double post>

Monkeyboy wrote:I think what people are more concerned about is that next year we'll be saying "The worst that happens is player X sucks for 2016 and 2017." I'm more concerned about the approach and the players they're targeting than I am about being sucky/mediocre next year. The latter is a temporary problem; the former may create problems in the long term.

Right but what would you have actually done? Would you feel better with Rupp and John Buck? $150M to Ellsbury?

As for the Bill Giles 1980s stuff let's take a deep breath. I would have given my left nut to watch guys like Lee and Hamels and Utley back then. And the team could still reap a pretty good return from trades if it goes south again. Even guys like Ruiz and Byrd that are supposedly such bad deals

i really don't think comparing the phillies situation to the sixers' is terribly helpful.