swishnicholson wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:The whole premise is strange to me. I have no idea how you can judge whether he has "won" the Oswalt and Pence trades now. Anything can happen but I feel it's more likely than not that Villar, Cosart, Singleton, Gose, etc. will exceed the 8ish WAR put up by Pence/OSwalt, but I didnt RTFA, so who knows.

In the long run, we're all dead.

I don't really think you have trouble with the concept. Amaro has traded for people to help the team win over the past three or four years, and almost none of them have turned out to be stiffs, and none of the guys traded away would have done the team much good over this period. Yay for us. Unfortunately they didn't win enough games, and there are also a lot of other things that go into building the team that he can be judged on. But he has generally gotten good value.

If it makes you feel better, he would definitely have lost the (second)Pence and Victorino trades to this point. Maybe Ethan what's-his-face can even things up a little this week.

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:We get it. You're bending over backwards to refute every criticism of him in this thread.

Grotewold wrote:

Shore wrote:They don't need to tank - they're terrible.

Relative to runs scored and allowed, they've been the LUCKIEST team in the majors. They have 5 more wins than they "should". Only the Marlins project to fewer wins based on runs in the NL.

I hope we can work miracles in the offseason, because what I really can't handle is the thought of blowing the TV deal. And no one is going to watch this team if we play next season anything like this one.

The downward progression, despite a high payroll, is clear to everyone. And Ruben certainly hitched his wagon to an aging core. He does and should look bad for that.

That said, was it realistic to expect to get next to nothing from Howard for two full seasons? Or worse than nothing from Roy Hallday for two full seasons? An extremely flukey/weird 2012 from Lee and 2013 from Hamels? Absolutely nothing positive from the bullpen (other than Papelbon) two consecutive years? Perhaps the dramatic dropoff from Ruiz this year should have been foreseen -- and I know you called for them to sell him off last year -- but I didn't see it as a slam dunk. I mean really, you could say that other than a month of red-hot Dom Brown and a surprisingly healthy and effective Utley this year, we've had a pretty incredible run of bad luck. Pettibone and Kendrick are nice stories, but you expect a few of those

I don't say that to excuse Amaro, at all. Just to say that 2014 and beyond may not be as bleak as many think. Especially with a couple good moves this offseason and one or two prospects stepping forward

Barry Jive wrote:fuck it, I'm glad he didn't trade Young for that horseshit return. waive him and see if you get any bites. you probably won't. but having a shitty AA reliever (who is probably now below his early-season ranking) that you have to put on the 40-man roster just to keep is basically worthless. Rube did the equivalent of walking by a penny on the ground and saying "fuck it" instead of picking it up.

sydnor wrote:Shore, thoughts on McCann being the focus of FA? To the good, he can really hit. To the bad, he will be signed past his 33rd bday and you're skeptical of old catchers. And he's lh.

Napalm wrote:whats the rundown on ethan martin?

Shore wrote:

sydnor wrote:Shore, thoughts on McCann being the focus of FA? To the good, he can really hit. To the bad, he will be signed past his 33rd bday and you're skeptical of old catchers. And he's lh.

I like McCann, and even a 5-year deal would only pay him to 34. BUT, if the offseason is "sign McCann, cross fingers", then I don't want him. The LH thing has to be considered, because he's much better against RHP.

But they need to figure out the short- and long-term plans at C, 1B, SS, 3B, RF, and CF. If the C solution is McCann, but the rest is Howard, Rollins, Asche, Revere, and a schlub in RF, no thanks.

The Braves, and Nationals, are better than that team.

I'd rather figure out how we're going to win 95 games in 2015, then how we're going to win 85 in 2014, and hope that's enough for the 2nd wildcard. That will mean tough decisions on Howard, Rollins, etc. And we can't just throw 5 guys out in the pen and hope 3 of them have good years, because relief pitching is some kind of mystery.

Warszawa wrote:

Shore wrote:

sydnor wrote:Shore, thoughts on McCann being the focus of FA? To the good, he can really hit. To the bad, he will be signed past his 33rd bday and you're skeptical of old catchers. And he's lh.

I like McCann, and even a 5-year deal would only pay him to 34. BUT, if the offseason is "sign McCann, cross fingers", then I don't want him. The LH thing has to be considered, because he's much better against RHP.

But they need to figure out the short- and long-term plans at C, 1B, SS, 3B, RF, and CF. If the C solution is McCann, but the rest is Howard, Rollins, Asche, Revere, and a schlub in RF, no thanks.

The Braves, and Nationals, are better than that team.

I'd rather figure out how we're going to win 95 games in 2015, then how we're going to win 85 in 2014, and hope that's enough for the 2nd wildcard. That will mean tough decisions on Howard, Rollins, etc. And we can't just throw 5 guys out in the pen and hope 3 of them have good years, because relief pitching is some kind of mystery.

Murph basically says we are screwed offensively here, especially if we re-sign utley. Too left handed with the best free agents available also left handed.

Trent Steele wrote:

Warszawa wrote:

Shore wrote:

sydnor wrote:Shore, thoughts on McCann being the focus of FA? To the good, he can really hit. To the bad, he will be signed past his 33rd bday and you're skeptical of old catchers. And he's lh.

I like McCann, and even a 5-year deal would only pay him to 34. BUT, if the offseason is "sign McCann, cross fingers", then I don't want him. The LH thing has to be considered, because he's much better against RHP.

But they need to figure out the short- and long-term plans at C, 1B, SS, 3B, RF, and CF. If the C solution is McCann, but the rest is Howard, Rollins, Asche, Revere, and a schlub in RF, no thanks.

The Braves, and Nationals, are better than that team.

I'd rather figure out how we're going to win 95 games in 2015, then how we're going to win 85 in 2014, and hope that's enough for the 2nd wildcard. That will mean tough decisions on Howard, Rollins, etc. And we can't just throw 5 guys out in the pen and hope 3 of them have good years, because relief pitching is some kind of mystery.

Murph basically says we are screwed offensively here, especially if we re-sign utley. Too left handed with the best free agents available also left handed.

Personally think that is way overblown. Could platoon at 1b and C with Ruf and Kratz