Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby my cousin mose » Thu Apr 12, 2012 15:39:45

Grotewold wrote:
jeff2sf wrote:And did you really say I guy hitting .231 is playing well? He's got three hits.


Oh cool, mr science dissing my post based on 13 at bats

Fuck this

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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby td11 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 15:40:45

i really can't believe JP grinds your gears THIS much, jeff.
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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby jeff2sf » Thu Apr 12, 2012 15:53:31

Trent Steele wrote:Nix has a career .288 OBP. The last two years where he got 300 PA (2011 and 2009) his OBP was .299 and .291. He #$!&@ blows.

Am I really supposed to give a #$!&@ that he doesn't get AB?


Trent, you left out the part where he had a .450 Slugging at least in the last 3 years. If Laynce Nix sucks (he doesn't, but if he did), Juan Pierre is so much suckier it hurts.

I'm not using 13 AB as anything Grote, I'm just countering this idea that he's been good this year. I haven't really commented on his play this year except to refute your idea that he has been good. I'll agree with you that we don't have enough info to judge his play this year... but we don't need to, Juan Pierre has forfeited the right to play in the major leagues through is atrocious play in 4 of the last 5 years especially given the last two years.
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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby jeff2sf » Thu Apr 12, 2012 15:54:30

td11 wrote:i really can't believe JP grinds your gears THIS much, jeff.


Oh I hate him, man, I fucking hate him.
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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby SK790 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 15:55:01

Grotewold wrote:
SK790 wrote:Don't know who is arguing those other points.


Well, you are, indirectly. Dropping Pierre to 7 or 8 means moving one of your few line-drive hitters from the 3 or 5 hole. Which is reasonable, but I'm not gonna get worked up about Manuel not doing that against righties, as appears to be the plan.

Again, if Pierre proves as awful as you guys think he is, and/or Utley or Howard returns or one of the LF/1B guys starts hitting, the situation will take care of itself.

I don't see what the big difference is between hitting 3 and hitting 2 is. I'd rather have one of them moved up and have Ruiz hit in the 5 hole(he can hit LDs, too) than waste an extra AB for Pierre/Nix/whoever
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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby smitty » Thu Apr 12, 2012 16:15:51

phorever wrote:sigh... eric seidman has a disappointing column over at brotherly glove. claims it would be better to bat shane first instead of rollins. its disappointing because he's both a phan and lead writer for fangraphs, and manages to show that he places an outdated bit of stathead gospel ahead of both a considerable body of evidence every phan should know about jimmy and ahead of a bunch of sabrmetric research that confirms that the best all-round hitters belong in the 2-4 spots, as long as the team has a very good baserunner with passable on base skills to bat first. jimmy is a little low on the on-base side, but he remains high on the sb rate and % numbers and has a history of using his power effectively to drive in bottom of the order guys who get on base. the leadoff obp nazi's have been ignoring this for years.



I think you need to re-read the article. He's not saying anything much different than you. Although he also adds that lineup construction isn't all that important anyway. I think his main point is Manuel should stop tinkering so much with the lineup and simply use his best hitters further up in the lineup. Pretty much what folks here are saying.



Research has proven that altering lineup configurations has a negligible result on seasonal run-scoring. The effect isn’t zero, but it isn’t anywhere near dramatic enough to merit constantly moving players around.


But if the Phillies want to “shake things up” and try to infuse more offense, they need to stop batting Polanco second, and need to avoid using Juan Pierre out of the leadoff spot when he plays. While Pierre can still contribute, this isn’t the 2003 version of him, and there is nothing wrong with batting him seventh or eighth in the hopes that he starts something at the bottom of the order or helps turn the lineup over.

A real shakeup would have the first four as Rollins, Victorino, Pence, Mayberry/Thome, where the better hitters bat upfront. I have no problem batting Rollins leadoff instead of Victorino, but it’s better for the Phillies if Vic and Pence are closer to the top of the order. Where they bat is more important than Rollins’ spot.
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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby JFLNYC » Thu Apr 12, 2012 16:29:36

jeff2sf wrote:You can't ignore the 11 outs he's made.


This may be my favorite post of all time.
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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby jeff2sf » Thu Apr 12, 2012 17:37:12

James, I recognize you're a little slow, so I try to cut you some slack, but 11 outs in 14 AB really isn't what one would call good.

I'm more than happy to leave this year's poor performance out of our assessment of Juan, I just was responding to the idea that he's been anything but bad this year. He clearly hasn't. But it's 13 AB and miracles have occurred before, so we can definitely piss away more time letting Pierre get bad at bat after bad at bat.
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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby Monkeyboy » Thu Apr 12, 2012 17:50:45

Not everyone who disagrees with you is stupid. Why can't you have a debate/conversation without throwing around all the ad hominem? It makes your position look even weaker than it is.
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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby Grotewold » Thu Apr 12, 2012 18:49:14

jeff2sf wrote:I'll agree with you that we don't have enough info to judge his play this year... but we don't need to


But Charlie Manuel does. Every day. From a real shallow pool, at the moment.

If Pierre logs 600 PAs with a crazy-low OPS, your histrionics will prove justified. I'm saying the only way that happens is if Pierre plays well or literally every other 1B/LF falls on his face and Howard doesn't do anything. Which would sort of be the bigger story.

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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby Grotewold » Thu Apr 12, 2012 19:01:52

David Hale wrote:Come on #Phillies, Disco Stu's fries don't advertise...


:shock:

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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby Bucky » Thu Apr 12, 2012 20:03:00

Giants awarded a sandwich pick for the Burrell signing

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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby phdave » Thu Apr 12, 2012 20:10:21

Bucky wrote:Giants awarded a sandwich pick for the Burrell signing


A Pat Burrell sandwich

Image
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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby Soren » Thu Apr 12, 2012 20:10:44

jeff is pretty much insufferable.
Olivia Meadows, your "emotional poltergeist"

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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby Woody » Thu Apr 12, 2012 20:12:46

it's his thing!
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?

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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby 1 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 20:28:37

Paul Hagen wrote:Burrell was already pretty emotional when Giants third-base coach Tim Flannery walked up before the game and handed him something. It was the circular patch with "VUK" stitched in white letters against a black background that the Phils wore during the 2007 season in memory of beloved coach John Vukovich.

"Put it in your pocket and play with Vuk today," Flannery told him.

Said Burrell: "I think I started crying right there."

Jesus Christ

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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby jeff2sf » Thu Apr 12, 2012 23:37:08

Soren wrote:jeff is pretty much insufferable.


just stop it.
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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby Ramon Gris » Fri Apr 13, 2012 01:38:48

Jeff, I feel like you're making an argument that you think Charlie will read, and it's only BSGers that are reading it. We all know Juan Pierre sucks, and we've all sort of come to terms with it. Convincing us will not cause him to see fewer plate appearances. We're all just learning to accept our tiny-headed friend, despite his obvious short-comings, and hope that his slight and specialized skill set will help us score the occasional run.

I personally hope he lucks into a few singles, doesn't make too many outs on the basepaths, and helps us manufacture a few much-needed runs while Utley and Howard are out. Once our offense is legitimate again, I hope we barely ever see him. The last man on our roster is causing you way too much consternation.

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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby The B1G Piece » Fri Apr 13, 2012 07:35:16

He does have a very small head.

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Re: Google+: Phillies Random Thoughts

Postby JFLNYC » Fri Apr 13, 2012 07:40:15

So does Pierre.
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