Cliff Lee is a Phillies!!! We did it!

by **Ace Rothstein** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:09:52

real ken on CSN

by **FTN** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:11:09

Trent Steele wrote:Neyer

• For the Phillies, the key to this trade is not 2009. Adding Lee ups their chances of qualifying for the Big Baseball Tournament from 75 percent to something like 80 percent, and their chances of winning the tournament from maybe eight percent to 10 percent (and yes, I'm just sort of making up those two numbers). Where Lee really helps the Phillies is next season, when they'll have him for six full months (at least). This will be portrayed a short-term deal, when in fact it's a medium-term deal.

• Considering how much less money Lee makes than Roy Halladay, and considering how much less the Phillies had to give up to get Lee than they would have to have given up to get Halladay, Ruben Amaro deserves a great deal of credit for this choice. His next big chore? Developing all those young players he wouldn't give to the Blue Jays.

• I think the Indians got a fine haul. Everyone's going to fixate on the Indians not getting the Phillies' best prospects, but that speaks more to the Phillies' incredible wealth of prospects more than anything else. As I've written at least a couple of times, Carlos Carrasco is an excellent prospect; he might be the Indians' best starter as soon as next summer.

• You know how I feel about Class A pitchers: most of them won't wind up being worth a bucket of lukewarm spit. But this Class A pitcher the Indians are getting, Jason Knapp, throws 97 and has struck out 149 professional hitters in 116 professional innings. If you're going to get a Class A pitcher, this is probably the best kind to get.

So let's call it a win-win. And considering the weakness of the American League Central, I'm not even sure we should heavily discount the Indians' chances of getting into the mix next year.

I think he's probably wrong about the postseason odds (the difference between Lee and Moyer probably is worth more than that) but he seems about right in his assessment. He does not see eye to eye with KLAW apparently

Where is KLaw's take?

Just knowing his rationale, the Phillies should get credit because Lee is "moving to the awful league" and he viewed Donald and Marson as backups or second division starters, and he hates Jason Knapp.

by **Trent Steele** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:11:59

Re Law, I meant the view on the Phils prospects and system generally

by **PTOITWCFTPP** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:19:04

I can't comprehend the awesomeness

by **seke2** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:19:20

Law will now do an about face and call these 4 guys the best prospects in the major leagues since they're not on the Phillies, while citing Lee's occasional past struggles as an indicator of why he is going to be totally worthless.

by **traderdave** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:23:47

seke2 wrote:Law will now do an about face and call these 4 guys the best prospects in the major leagues since they're not on the Phillies, while citing Lee's occasional past struggles as an indicator of why he is going to be totally worthless.

I was thinking the same thing. It will be interesting to see how he spins getting last year's C/Y winner for four guys he has ripped up and down for three weeks against the Phils. For his part, poor Roy Halladay seems completely unfocused today indicated by his 51 pitches in his three innings of work so far today.

by **z ipper** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:24:00

floppy on june 15

1. Trade Carlos Carrasco, Michael Taylor, Jason Donald, Lou Marson and Joe Savery to the Indians for Cliff Lee and Mark DeRosa.

by **smitty** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:24:17

Trent Steele wrote:Neyer

• For the Phillies, the key to this trade is not 2009. Adding Lee ups their chances of qualifying for the Big Baseball Tournament from 75 percent to something like 80 percent, and their chances of winning the tournament from maybe eight percent to 10 percent (and yes, I'm just sort of making up those two numbers). Where Lee really helps the Phillies is next season, when they'll have him for six full months (at least). This will be portrayed a short-term deal, when in fact it's a medium-term deal.

• Considering how much less money Lee makes than Roy Halladay, and considering how much less the Phillies had to give up to get Lee than they would have to have given up to get Halladay, Ruben Amaro deserves a great deal of credit for this choice. His next big chore? Developing all those young players he wouldn't give to the Blue Jays.

• I think the Indians got a fine haul. Everyone's going to fixate on the Indians not getting the Phillies' best prospects, but that speaks more to the Phillies' incredible wealth of prospects more than anything else. As I've written at least a couple of times, Carlos Carrasco is an excellent prospect; he might be the Indians' best starter as soon as next summer.

• You know how I feel about Class A pitchers: most of them won't wind up being worth a bucket of lukewarm spit. But this Class A pitcher the Indians are getting, Jason Knapp, throws 97 and has struck out 149 professional hitters in 116 professional innings. If you're going to get a Class A pitcher, this is probably the best kind to get.

So let's call it a win-win. And considering the weakness of the American League Central, I'm not even sure we should heavily discount the Indians' chances of getting into the mix next year.

I think he's probably wrong about the postseason odds (the difference between Lee and Moyer probably is worth more than that) but he seems about right in his assessment. He does not see eye to eye with KLAW apparently

Yeah. Who knows about post season odds and stuff like that. It all boils down to secret sauce and that kind of stuff.

I think he's right that the Indians didn't do too bad. Better than the Twins got for Santana and the Phils got for Abreu and many other examples recently. Even the great haul the Rangers got for Tex really isn't THAT great -- especially if Feliz doesn't pan out.

And his point about the AL Central is a very sound one I believe. All the talk about the superiority of the AL really boils doen to two great and one near great team in the East. The AL Central sucks and the West isn't great (at least until Texas gets them some pitchers).

The guys that the Phils sent to the Tribe can help them win. And Knapp has a chance to be really good.

The trade is, of course even better for the Phils. Lee is an Ace and Francisco should be a great bench guy. And the Phils still have my favorite guys in Drabek, Taylor, Brown and Sanchez.

But I think Neyer's points aren't bad at all.

by **BassGuiFloyd** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:24:37

The Eeming Tree wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:Indians fans need to remember this trade and hope for the best.

Or this one.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseba ... eanalysis/

ha i like reading minaya was the expos gm then

by **ReadingPhilly** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:26:29

no walks in his last 27.2 ip

by **EndlessSummer** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:26:59

The last 36 work hours have been like wading through an aquarium tank of feces. This trade makes me far happier. Almost seems too good to be true.

by **FTN** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:27:17

z ipper wrote:floppy on june 15

1. Trade Carlos Carrasco, Michael Taylor, Jason Donald, Lou Marson and Joe Savery to the Indians for Cliff Lee and Mark DeRosa.

damn what was i thinking

by **Eem** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:27:34

z ipper wrote:floppy on june 15

1. Trade Carlos Carrasco, Michael Taylor, Jason Donald, Lou Marson and Joe Savery to the Indians for Cliff Lee and Mark DeRosa.

Good call FTN, but I like this deal even more.

by **smitty** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:28:16

traderdave wrote:
seke2 wrote:Law will now do an about face and call these 4 guys the best prospects in the major leagues since they're not on the Phillies, while citing Lee's occasional past struggles as an indicator of why he is going to be totally worthless.

I was thinking the same thing. It will be interesting to see how he spins getting last year's C/Y winner for four guys he has ripped up and down for three weeks against the Phils.

I honestly don't think Law hates the Phillies or anything like that. He's kinda doofus in the way he evaluates prospects -- especially compared to a guy like Goldstein who appears to really work hard at it. But I think Law knows he gets a lot of reaction when he disparages a Philly guy because he knows a lot of Phans are really good and pay attention to prospects and stuff.

I mean, he could spend more time knocking Marlin or National or Pirate prospects but he wouldn't get the same bang for the buck reaction.

by **BassGuiFloyd** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:28:29

EndlessSummer wrote:The last 36 work hours have been like wading through an aquarium tank of feces. This trade makes me far happier. Almost seems too good to be true.

did u find the phone?

http://www.dontevenreply.com/view.php_post=56

by **FTN** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:32:20

The Eeming Tree wrote:
z ipper wrote:floppy on june 15

1. Trade Carlos Carrasco, Michael Taylor, Jason Donald, Lou Marson and Joe Savery to the Indians for Cliff Lee and Mark DeRosa.

Good call FTN, but I like this deal even more.

I do too. Im still kind of shocked.,

by **WilliamC** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:36:01

I love that we all pretty much all love this. It sucks when a trade is made that makes everyone miserable. I haven't talked to a single person yet that dislikes it. A lot of people I know were also educated about the Phillies top prospects through this process which is also nice.

I sent my dad to Floppy's site and he said he spent a few hours the other night reading through stuff.

by **Phight On!** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:36:55

I really can't tell how much of what Eskin says is what he truly believes and how much of what he says is just to piss people off. I mean the guy knows very little about sports in general but is the highest rated sports radio personality in the Philly market so I guess he is doing something right.

by **SteveJeltzPhanClub** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:37:23

Anyone have any guesses when Lee will pitch his first game? I'm going to Friday night's game, and would be thrilled to see him pitch...

by **PTOITWCFTPP** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 17:38:40

SteveJeltzPhanClub wrote:Anyone have any guesses when Lee will pitch his first game? I'm going to Friday night's game, and would be thrilled to see him pitch...

If they pushed Moyer back, his first start could be Saturday vs Lincecum. That would be incredible.

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Cliff Lee is a Phillies!!! We did it!