Thread Breakout: The *Official* Fire Tom McCarthy Thread

by **Grotewold** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 16:12:01

smitty wrote:When I'm watching/listening to a game, who the announcer is doesn't matter all that much -- especially on TV. I barely even notice who the guy is.

Website · by **Wolfgang622** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 16:16:19

Woody wrote:Just because you don't like his style, or think he did a worse job than the radio announcer on a given call, it doesn't mean that he's bad at his job.

As he is an employee of the Philadelphia Phillies, I think we can reasonably surmise that his job is to add value to Phillies broadcasts over and above what they might get if the game was broadcast in silence, or perhaps with a truly dispassionate observer giving basic descriptions of each play. If there were a VORP stat for local team announcing, you would measure how much value a broadcaster adds to a team's telecast over what a replacement broadcaster - any guy capable of calling a baseball game, who has no interest in whether the team employing him wins or loses - could give the team.

By playing to the middle and refusing to appear to be rooting for the Phillies in these games, he fails to add any kind of value to Phillies - and I can't stress that adjective enough - broadcasts.

He is, therefore, objectively bad at his job.

QED

by **Marion** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 16:19:11

Just go back and read all the hating on Sarge when he started. Now think how near and dear he is to our hearts.

by **Putt Putt** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 16:19:25

I agree that in most places that haven't been blessed with an HK, a broadcaster is just a talking head afterthought & not a very big issue at all...

BUT, I think that a large part of the problem that some of us have with TMac stems from the fact that someone (Franzke) so measurably better than him in many ways seems to be blocked from taking (what we feel) is his rightful place in the Phils broadcast hierarchy.

Website · by **Wolfgang622** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 16:20:33

Putt Putt wrote:I agree that in most places that haven't been blessed with an HK, a broadcaster is just a talking head afterthought & not a very big issue at all...

BUT, I think that a large part of the problem that some of us have with TMac stems from the fact that someone (Franzke) so measurably better than him in many ways seems to be blocked from taking (what we feel) is his rightful place in the Phils broadcast hierarchy.

This.

by **Grotewold** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 16:24:55

Marion wrote:Just go back and read all the hating on Sarge when he started. Now think how near and dear he is to our hearts.

I think that like anything else in life, the people who are comfortable in their own skin eventually win people over. Plus his hats

Website · by **Wolfgang622** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 16:25:14

Marion wrote:Just go back and read all the hating on Sarge when he started. Now think how near and dear he is to our hearts.

Like I said, T-Mac could get better. There are in my mind very specific things he could work on that would make him better. Hopefully if he hears it enough out there he will work on these things.

But McCarthy is unlike Sarge or Franzke or Graham in one very important respect: he was here for five full years doing the radio pre and post game shows, along with some PBP, and he failed to make any kind of an impression here then. I think most of us looked at Graham, Franzke, and Sarge all with suspicion at first, but it wasn't too long before all three developed followings. McCarthy was here for five years, and I don't remember anyone giving two shits when he left. When he came back, there was general consternation. He has had a few tendencies for which fans have repeatedly professed dislike, and he has not improved, in over a year's time.

Now we're faced with the prospect of thirty years of Tom McCarthy. I think that's why you're seeing such an outpouring of hate now.

by **thephan** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 16:39:58

All it took for Sage to win me ove was when he tripped through the booth interview with Alyssa Milano ... http://www.the700level.com/2008/07/alyssa-milano-m.html

Unfortunately the link does not have him talking about all her tats, how many, where, etc.

by **dajafi** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 16:54:57

Marion wrote:Just go back and read all the hating on Sarge when he started. Now think how near and dear he is to our hearts.

As others have pointed out, if this was going to happen with McCarthy, it likely would have happened already. This isn't an adjustment period; he's not "new." If anything, he's getting more irritating seemingly by the week.

by **philliesphhan** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 17:14:16

Aside from rooting for the other team, I wouldn't notice McCarthy being so awful if the radio broadcast wasn't so much more enjoyable.

Ha, Paul Domowich is shocked someone was ripping McCarthy.

by **Ace Rothstein** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 17:15:44

philliesphhan wrote:Aside from rooting for the other team, I wouldn't notice McCarthy being so awful if the radio broadcast wasn't so much more enjoyable.

Ha, Paul Domowich is shocked someone was ripping McCarthy.

he brought that out from no where , it was a RAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUULLLLL lovefest and domo drops that in the middle of it

by **swishnicholson** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 17:37:35

smitty wrote:
I grew up with Bill Campbell, By Saam, Whitey and later Harry. I was definitely treated to the best of the best. Since then, only Jack Buck, Dave Niehaus and maybe a couple of others compare to those guys. Aside from them, pretty much all the other guys are the same. When I'm watching/listening to a game, who the announcer is doesn't matter all that much -- especially on TV. I barely even notice who the guy is. I don't count on him for great analysis or insight. If he is funny that's good sometimes but it doesn't really matter all that much.

I'm certain I'm in a minority on this here board -- at least amongst those who post on this topic. But I wonder if I'm in the minority over all. I know when I'm home and I'm watching to a game no one I'm with cares all that much who is announcing. And when I'm watching or listening to a game her no one much cares. And I know for a fact that I don't much care.

As for McCarthy, he doesn't bother me. I don't pay all that close attention to him.

I think that's the way to take it, and I hope for others' sakes they can play it that way. After all, we listen for the game, not the announcers, and it would be a shame to allow passionate fans' enjoyment to be killed just because the guy calling it is unappealing. Joe Buck and friends may have been annoying calling the world series, but I hope that didn't REALLY spoil it for anyone.

I'm not much of a fan. But some of the criticism is way overstated. McCarthy doesn't root against the Phillies, he just tends to play both sides at about the same level. Perhaps this is intentional. Listening habits have changed. You can find plenty of people on this board who tune in through various internet and satellite connections and listen to games broadcast by other than local crews. If that's how you listen or watch games, chances are you'd rather have a more objective report than someone who is conspicuously a hometown booster. I can understand how this creates an annoyance though. When you get excited watching a game you'd like that excitement to be shared and when it's not-either because of the complete lack of passion of someone like Buck or the equitably parceled-out enthusiasm of someone like McCarthy-there's a disconnect that occurs and makes it less than fulfilling.

Some of the company line quoted above is just ridiculous spin. There was a little bit of resentment of Kalas since he was from out of town and was replacing the popular Campbell, but five years down the road he was fully one of the family. It does take time for people to grow on you, but thirty years down the road I don't see Wheeler having become anywhere close to beloved, so it takes more than time. Andersen and Matthews met with resistance at the beginning, but a lot of that was that they weren't very skilled, and as they learned the trade their personalities were able to come through.As others have mentioned, McCarthy has already been around for a while, so his chances of winning people over are slim. On the other hand, he does seem extremely overeager to please at this time, often desperate to fill silences and to banter with his boothmates even when it's strained. Maybe he can relax a bit and become easier to take.

In the meantime, though, I'd just turn on the radio or tune him out. Other than very occasionally, it's not like anyone on this board really needs to learn from McCarthy what's going on.

by **smitty** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 18:50:34

Thinking abut it, I recall folks being pretty much pleased with Kalas pretty quickly. It certainly didn't take 5 years. Musser was the guy who took a while. Mostly because he stumbled a lot. He was Mr. "check it." "The count is 2 and 2 -- check it; one and two." "The score is 3 to 1 -- check it; 2 to 1." " Montanez strolls to the plate -- check it, that's Joe Lis."

Musser did that all game long. It was kinda funny though.

by **phatj** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 21:44:29

Grotewold wrote:
Marion wrote:Just go back and read all the hating on Sarge when he started. Now think how near and dear he is to our hearts.

I think that like anything else in life, the people who are comfortable in their own skin eventually win people over.

Thank you for that mental image.

by **philliesphhan** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 21:53:26

His eulogy tonight during Dunn's HR was a nice change

by **swishnicholson** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 00:38:28

smitty wrote: Musser was the guy who took a while. Mostly because he stumbled a lot. He was Mr. "check it." "The count is 2 and 2 -- check it; one and two." "The score is 3 to 1 -- check it; 2 to 1." " Montanez strolls to the plate -- check it, that's Joe Lis."

Musser did that all game long. It was kinda funny though.

Hah! I'd forgotten about that. I grew to like Musser, though, he had a comfortable way of relating a game. Musser is probably McCarthy's ceiling, although maybe you see him as a sleeper, I don't know.

You were right that we were spoiled being able to listen to people like Campbell, By Saam and Kalas. There don't seem to be many around like any more, or maybe there are and there are just so many outlets, markets and major sports these days that they're spread thin. But also I think the major plum for a broadcaster was to be on one of the mega-watt AM radio stations, and people modeled themselves after the heroes of this medium.

Nowadays the ultimate is of course to be on a show shouting "travesty!" to some ex-jock next to you and laughing uproariously at nothing in particular. We have a lot of people good at that.

by **Ace Rothstein** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 08:34:41

Didnt listen to Musser much, but he was good for atleast 1 of these a game " It's a high fly ball to center field, caught by Micky Moradini. "

by **drsmooth** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 08:53:49

smitty wrote:
phatj wrote:
mozartpc27 wrote:2) Will he be booed? I would put the odds at 4:3 he gets booed.

Maybe, but my sense is that most people don't care about this as much as the folks on this board.

I think this is 100 percent correct. I don't remember anyone ever getting all worked up regarding announcers the way this board does. To me, McCarthy is a generic announcer guy, like 90 percent of the guys out there.

I grew up with Bill Campbell, By Saam, Whitey and later Harry. I was definitely treated to the best of the best. Since then, only Jack Buck, Dave Niehaus and maybe a couple of others compare to those guys. Aside from them, pretty much all the other guys are the same. When I'm watching/listening to a game, who the announcer is doesn't matter all that much -- especially on TV. I barely even notice who the guy is. I don't count on him for great analysis or insight. If he is funny that's good sometimes but it doesn't really matter all that much.

I'm certain I'm in a minority on this here board -- at least amongst those who post on this topic. But I wonder if I'm in the minority over all. I know when I'm home and I'm watching to a game no one I'm with cares all that much who is announcing. And when I'm watching or listening toa game her no one much cares. And I know for a fact that I don't much care.

As for McCarthy, he doesn't bother me. I don't pay all that close attention to him.

I concur with everything Smitty says here, except that McCarthy does bother me.

Website · by **Wolfgang622** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:10:37

Just listened, finally, to T-Mac's call of Dunn's HR. Last night. I think it's a definite improvement.

by **smitty** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 14:50:22

swishnicholson wrote:
smitty wrote: Musser was the guy who took a while. Mostly because he stumbled a lot. He was Mr. "check it." "The count is 2 and 2 -- check it; one and two." "The score is 3 to 1 -- check it; 2 to 1." " Montanez strolls to the plate -- check it, that's Joe Lis."

Musser did that all game long. It was kinda funny though.

Hah! I'd forgotten about that. I grew to like Musser, though, he had a comfortable way of relating a game. Musser is probably McCarthy's ceiling, although maybe you see him as a sleeper, I don't know.

You were right that we were spoiled being able to listen to people like Campbell, By Saam and Kalas. There don't seem to be many around like any more, or maybe there are and there are just so many outlets, markets and major sports these days that they're spread thin. But also I think the major plum for a broadcaster was to be on one of the mega-watt AM radio stations, and people modeled themselves after the heroes of this medium.

Nowadays the ultimate is of course to be on a show shouting "travesty!" to some ex-jock next to you and laughing uproariously at nothing in particular. We have a lot of people good at that.

Musser ended up being good I thought. Pleasant enough and that's all I need really.

Today you gotta be edgy. Talk loud and fast and wave the arms a lot -- it even works on the radio; the arm waving part, I'm not sure why.

That's not really play by play guy stuff though.

Archived

Thread Breakout: The Official Fire Tom McCarthy Thread