Positivity bulletin ---->

by **Phan In Phlorida** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 00:17:10

The Phils scored runs today :!:

by **Shore** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 01:17:22

Wizlah wrote:
Shore wrote:Nah, I'll just continue to bitch about the first place team.

They play 162 games; they're likely going to lose between 70 and 80 of them. Yet, every single time they lose, it's inexcusable. And every single one of them is illustrative of some major goddamned flaw. "They don't hit good pitching." "They don't hit bad pitching." "Their rotation sucks." "Their bullpen sucks/overworked/not structured right." "The manager's an idiot." "They're not clutch" "They only score runs in bunches." Blah blah blah.

Relax, enjoy the season. They are winning their division right now, and we all know they're not playing as well as they could be.

You know what shore? go to hell. That's probably a really bad thing to say to a moderator, but I'm saying it. Really. I read today that the phillies run rate over the last 2 MONTHS is better only than the giants, the nationals and the padres. That is not enjoyable to watch. It would be acceptable if they were at least winning the good games by hamels and moyer, but they can't. not only is that not enjoyable, it's quite frustrating. Furthermore, we've had to watch the distinctly unenjoyable spectacle of one of our main starters crumble slowly and steadily before our eyes. sure, the last two starts, maybe he's turned it around, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but it's not been enjoyable. Watching Brad Lidge look shaky when closing, missing his spots, has not been enjoyable. a sanguine and stoic attitude supported by a knowledge that the stats will prove you right gets you only so far.

Venting aside, the bullpen HAS been structured badly. We're relying on one loogy, and slowly wearing his arm down AND leaving him too long in against the guys he can't really get out. We've got two quite old guys, one of whom is a done for life now. We've been waiting for the fall on this, and done nothing about it. There is nothing enjoyable about watching a bad outcome come closer and closer and doing nothing about it.

What is there exactly to enjoy about the transient nature of being in first when your great strength (hitting) has been absent for a prolonged period, when your rotation has been down to four men and the team braintrust have seen fit to improve it with a man who can at best be described as an above league average innings eater? It's not pleasant to know that you're hanging on to first by your fingernails. It's the sporting equivalent of dangling over a precipice and feeling your grip slowly weaken.

Worse, it comes after a year of great enjoyment and success. Our gambles haven't paid off (jenkins not being done, another alright year out of flash, myers adjusting his head to starting again), so I can see no way to enjoy our good fortune there. Our best player hasn't been playing well as well as last year when he spent a stretch on the disabled list, and in the last month, has been playing considerably worse. Nothing enjoyable there. Plus, there have been what have felt like more than a usual number of games where we have played sloppily, both in the field and at the plate.

Don't come the straw man with all the 'they only hit bad pitching' lines. A sizable chunk of this board have not resorted to such nonesense. there's been no bollix about how we need rowand, or this team just doesn't have guts. Or at least if there has, the general tone of the poster has been out of step with the overall tone of this board.

This isn't pissy little whinging. This is genuine, angry frustration. You want to lay the charge of quitters, go let loose on philaphans. I for one am angry at a team that is stalling and a front office that has done nothing to change things up.

Maybe it genuinely does get better. But don't tell me to enjoy the last two months. Hell, I haven't even been watching every game. If I could have done, you would all know angry.

Last time I checked, wins and losses were not a good measure of how well a team was actually playing. So don't tell me to enjoy first place.

Wiz, that's angry, but stupid.

You CANNOT pull the "wins and losses were not a good measure of how well a team was actually playing" card UNLESS you give a team credit when they play well, but go 80-82. And, from what I've seen out of you, that's bullshit. You'd whine about the 80-82, just like you're whining about 63-53.

You're ALSO talking out of your ass when you bring the "Worse, it comes after a year of great enjoyment and success. " Last year, after 116 games, we were 61-55, and in third place, behind both the Mets and the Braves. I'll bet you were enjoying the HELL out of that.

Is the team flawless? Of course not. Does the front office suck? Yes, they do. I would guess that I despise Gillick, Amaro, and Dallas Green more than anyone on the board. They're on pace for what, 88 wins? And they've been unlucky. They won 89 last year, and only got there playing .600 ball in August/September.

I sincerely hope your only path of enjoyment for a baseball season isn't limited to watching a clearly well-built, well-defined team, busting out of the gate strong, and playing crisp ball all season long. If every other outcome brings anger, disappointment, and bitterness... buy your kid a Yankees hat - save him from the same fate.

My FG articles · by **MattS** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 01:53:38

okay, let's not be too rational here, and just talk about something fairly obvious: most of us, including myself, are enjoying this year LESS than last year, despite the fact that they are in first place. why the hell is this? i have a few thoughts....

either it's not true and it's only true for me, in which case it is either that
(a) I'm going to the wrong games, and the 3-8 record in games I've attended coupled with witnessing 4 shutouts is weighing on me.
(b) I'm destined for unhappiness.

if it's true for other people, is it either
(a) it's only true lately and we don't remember how happy we were happy when we were 39-26.
(b) it's somehow more enjoyable to play catch-up than to play with a lead.
(c) we spent so long telling ourselves that anyone could win once they got to the playoffs, and after watching them go three and out last year, we feel like even getting to the playoffs will not be rewarding
(d) offense makes baseball fun and our offense has been less potent
(e) ryan howard is playing worse than last year and homeruns are fun

or is it something else? it does seem like we're collectively enjoying this less, and that's weird. we're playing better and less happy...why?

by **WilliamC** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 02:09:23

I think it really does have something to do with getting a taste of the playoffs last year.

The fans of the teams that are always really good seem to be the most miserable. Once you reach the top where else is there to go? We just got a taste last year. If we win a World Series I have a feeling that the fanbase would be even more difficult the following season. I think it might be just the way people are wired.

by **FTN** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 02:54:52

MattS wrote:okay, let's not be too rational here, and just talk about something fairly obvious: most of us, including myself, are enjoying this year LESS than last year, despite the fact that they are in first place. why the hell is this? i have a few thoughts....

I've narrowed it down to 4 things.

1.) We won last year. Who'd have thought? But the majority of the team was retained sans Rowand, and now that we know what it feels like, we expect the team to play even better. It doesn't feel like we're playing better.

2.) Every year we say "if only we had good pitching" and this year, the pitching has been outstanding. Hamels turns in gem after gem and gets no run support. The bullpen has been fantastic, better than anyone here could have possibly imagined, and it sucks monkey balls watching the pitching hold the other team to 1 or 2 runs and lose. Those are the types of starts we've BEGGED for over the last 3-4 years. Wasting those stings even more.

3.) Everyone picked the Mets to be the team to beat. We had a chance to bury them 6 weeks ago. We didn't. Now they are playing the underdog card and they are right behind us. I think they kind of suck, I know you think they're awesome, but I don't see them really being better. But the longer they hang around, the more nervous we have to be.

4.) The last 4 spots on the roster are being wasted. Last year we had 5 good outfielders. This year we have 4 + a waste of a player in Taguchi. Bruntlett isn't much better than Nunez. And I actually miss Pedro Feliz. Our stars are producing, but the fill in pieces really feel awful this year. Ruiz stinks like feet. Coste sucks too outside of a good month or so. Jenkins has been terrible and is still playing over Werth. Shinez. Just wasting resources in areas where Gillick should have improved the team.

All in all, we're in first fucking place in August. And we've spent a ton of time in first. We shouldn't be pissed. But I am. Because our competition blows, and we could have a nice 6-7 game lead at this point if our offense hadn't gone in the tank for a month. If the pitching continues to pitch, we're going to win the division. But we've got a lot of guys in over their heads and a lot of guys getting it done with smoke and mirrors. If that lets up and the offense doesn't start beating people to death, we might be in trouble, even if our opponents are flawed just like us.

by **Wizlah** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 05:49:02

Shore wrote: And, from what I've seen out of you, that's $#@!. You'd whine about the 80-82, just like you're whining about 63-53.

Shore, you going to go ad-hominem on me, please pull out the quotes. If you feel this the only appropriate response to my post because I've not responded with enough statistics for your liking, whatever. But if you're committed to that route, please find where I go whine about Ruiz's behavior in 2-1 counts, or how charlie 'ALWAYS' does so and so.

I flipped the switch about a month ago when I could no longer keep myself calm by repeating the mantra 'OBP!OBP!OBP', scrunching my eyes up and sticking fingers in my ears. I read about MattS comments on BABIP (which I'd kind of hoped were true) and but none of it was making the bad things go away. And I shut the hell up when it looked like we might be turning it about.

Shore wrote:You're ALSO talking out of your ass when you bring the "Worse, it comes after a year of great enjoyment and success. " Last year, after 116 games, we were 61-55, and in third place, behind both the Mets and the Braves. I'll bet you were enjoying the HELL out of that.

Last year, I enjoyed it fine, because after our traditional lousy start, we hung on in there. We could have finished with nothing at the end of last season, and I would have liked it fine cos we stayed in the chase right to the end. But again, you're assuming that I only like it when we're always winning.

Don't call me a whingy bitch. And don't tell me to go by a yankees cap, that's lazy, glib shit.

by **Wizlah** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 06:27:50

VoxOrion wrote:Wiz, I've only known you when the Phillies were making it to the post-season and in first place for the majority of a season.

Good Lord Almighty what were you like when the team was ending seasons in last place year after year?

I honestly think my two worst seasons (in terms of how I responded) prior to this were Burrell's august 2003, but that was fine cos it was my first year at the festival, so I had distractions, and that season in 2001 (can't remember which) where we were in first place and then we started sucking realy badly and it felt like every time I opened up ESPN in the morning, I was reading about antoher loss. Man, I hated that. Other than that, it's been okay. I spent most of my time hoping that Wolf was going to be really good, and idolising abreu.

by **Wizlah** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 06:31:44

Oh yay. We won.

Yes, I only read last night's wrap now.

by **LongDrive** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 07:18:58

I'm with Wiz on this. Ever since they won the 1st game against the Red Sox, I've been pretty much sick and tired of the lackluster and uninspired play by a lot of players on this team. They have no spark and when things get tight, they can't handle the pressure. They should have at least an 8 game lead in this division. Maybe things will change, and I hope they can turn things around soon, but the way things are going, it looks like another month and a half of this crap.

by **VoxOrion** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 08:56:38

1. The Phillies aren't underdogs. There's no comfort in imperfection because as the first place team there's this (irrational) expectation that a first place team should perform like x, y, and z and the Phillies do not. Instead of being measured by the standings (simple, and according to the foundation of the sport) the Phillies are being measured against arbitrary expectations (yeah we're winning but x is pitching too often, or worse: they should have won x games by now if they deserved it, etc).

2. There's also nothing to look foward to because the scoreboard watching is negative by nature, not positive. I think the comparison between 2007 and 2008 has proven that it is more entertaining to watch a team climb up from the x games down column than the odgeda brought on by watching the other teams up and down behind you and wishing (irrational) that there was such a sizable lead that watching the scoreboard wasn't necessary.

It always comes down to this though:

3. The attitude that a fan who can't find something to have angst over lacks sophistication and intelligence. This is why the Goth Chick is such an apt mascot.

by **VoxOrion** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 09:10:21

^ let me clarify #3. It's not that the criticism isn't valid, I'm by no means claiming that there's nothing wrong with the Phillies just because they're in first place or anything even remotely like that. I'm commenting on the degree to which the criticism is effecting people.

by **Wizlah** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:11:24

VoxOrion wrote:
I think the comparison between 2007 and 2008 has proven that it is more entertaining to watch a team climb up from the x games down column than the odgeda brought on by watching the other teams up and down behind you and wishing (irrational) that there was such a sizable lead that watching the scoreboard wasn't necessary.

I'll go you one further and suggest that given the many bad decisions that we feel are unique to this organisation, any prolonged sign of trouble makes you feel 10 times worse.

by **Shore** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:41:08

Wizlah wrote:
Shore wrote:You're ALSO talking out of your ass when you bring the "Worse, it comes after a year of great enjoyment and success. " Last year, after 116 games, we were 61-55, and in third place, behind both the Mets and the Braves. I'll bet you were enjoying the HELL out of that.

Last year, I enjoyed it fine, because after our traditional lousy start, we hung on in there. We could have finished with nothing at the end of last season, and I would have liked it fine cos we stayed in the chase right to the end. But again, you're assuming that I only like it when we're always winning.

1. You enjoyed last year fine, because we were in the race all year long. Quality of our play didn't matter, being in the race did.
2. This year, we're winning the division, and have been most of the year.

But

3. This year, you're miserable, because - despite our record and standing - our quality of play is down.

That strikes me as inconsistent.

To date, we're having a better year this year than last. Our record is better, and we're in first (barely) rather than third (barely). We are playing better than we did last year, too - our offense is down, but our pitching (to date) is nearly a run per game better.

The front office and ownership has sucked since, well, since I've cared about such things. Including last year. The team has been structured poorly - filling in a superstar-laden roster with below average players or even replacement level players, dragging down the overall product to meh - forever. Including last year.

Bitch about the team all you want; let's at least leave the halcyon days of 2007 - when we were worse in record, quality of play, and standing - out of the equation.

by **JFLNYC** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:14:47

Last year's team and this year's are different. I think it's simply that watching a lot of offense tends to be more entertaining than low-scoring. And watching an offense struggle, when you it expect to score a lot of runs, is frustrating.

That being said, I'm thinking that the quality of pitching the Phils are getting -- especially with Myers and Blanton pitching well -- is good news in the longer term for the post-season.

by **Phan In Phlorida** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:10:21

Pherhaps one reason is the Phils blew chunks in interleague play... 3-15, worst in the NL. Albeit, only 3 NL teams had a winning interleague record while only 2 AL teams had a losing record. IIRC, it seems enthusiasm was tempered a bit after interleague play. Another reason may be how the Phils have fared thus far against over .500 teams... 24-35. Even phans that don't know the numbers can sense the Phils haven't been beating "baseball's best" this year, and thus get a sense of "blah".

by **TenuredVulture** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:18:55

I'm pretty sure that last year I was more miserable than this year at least until around this point in the season, and maybe not until later.

I'd have to go back and look at my posts to be certain.

by **milton bernard thompson** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:26:18

TenuredVulture wrote:What I take objection to is the way in which people over-react to going down 0-1 in the third inning, or proclaiming the suckitude of Jimmy Rollins based on a ground out with RISP. Is it all that important to remind everyone in game threads that Ruiz sucks, that Jimmy sometimes swings when maybe he shouldn't, or that Howard isn't doing as well as he did last year?

anyone bored enough to be in a game thread while the game is going on is going to express their frustrations as if they were making off-hand comments during a game or thinking to themselves. i think it's unbelievably silly to ask people not to be critical in these threads.

by **philliesphhan** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 13:23:57

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Pherhaps one reason is the Phils blew chunks in interleague play... 3-15, worst in the NL. Albeit, only 3 NL teams had a winning interleague record while only 2 AL teams had a losing record. IIRC, it seems enthusiasm was tempered a bit after interleague play. Another reason may be how the Phils have fared thus far against over .500 teams... 24-35. Even phans that don't know the numbers can sense the Phils haven't been beating "baseball's best" this year, and thus get a sense of "blah".

I understand your overall point, but where did you get that record from? They were 4-11 in Interleague play

by **VoxOrion** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 13:40:50

milton bernard thompson wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:What I take objection to is the way in which people over-react to going down 0-1 in the third inning, or proclaiming the suckitude of Jimmy Rollins based on a ground out with RISP. Is it all that important to remind everyone in game threads that Ruiz sucks, that Jimmy sometimes swings when maybe he shouldn't, or that Howard isn't doing as well as he did last year?

anyone bored enough to be in a game thread while the game is going on is going to express their frustrations as if they were making off-hand comments during a game or thinking to themselves. i think it's unbelievably silly to ask people not to be critical in these threads.

That's not what's going on though - there's no roller coaster - threads start with "THIS SUCKS WE'RE GONNA LOSE" and go down from there, reaching back up to "WE SUCK BUT WE WON" at best. The exception is the game threads that start sarcastically with "WE'RE THE BEST".

There's just a heaviness and angstiness to threads, it has nothing to do with carrying on or saying "THAT'S RETARDED" here in there - there's no high only down and plateau.

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