i think if you went back to the game threads before interleague play, you'd see more of a feel of giddy optimism and relaxation. people are tense and frustrated about the team because they haven't looked particularly good for a pretty long time. really don't see what you guys are taking issue with. remember that this is the board where people are rational and reasonable, i think at this point it's perfectly rational and reasonable to be pessimistic about this team.

VoxOrion wrote:

milton bernard thompson wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:What I take objection to is the way in which people over-react to going down 0-1 in the third inning, or proclaiming the suckitude of Jimmy Rollins based on a ground out with RISP. Is it all that important to remind everyone in game threads that Ruiz sucks, that Jimmy sometimes swings when maybe he shouldn't, or that Howard isn't doing as well as he did last year?

anyone bored enough to be in a game thread while the game is going on is going to express their frustrations as if they were making off-hand comments during a game or thinking to themselves. i think it's unbelievably silly to ask people not to be critical in these threads.

That's not what's going on though - there's no roller coaster - threads start with "THIS SUCKS WE'RE GONNA LOSE" and go down from there, reaching back up to "WE SUCK BUT WE WON" at best. The exception is the game threads that start sarcastically with "WE'RE THE BEST".

There's just a heaviness and angstiness to threads, it has nothing to do with carrying on or saying "THAT'S RETARDED" here in there - there's no high only down and plateau.

It isn't just that--it's the pointless repetition of Ruiz's crumminess, as he's coming up to bat. Now, Ruiz really is a bad player, but it seems to go on with the entire lineup. It's almost like people want Ruiz to fail, so they can be correct in predicting his failure.

In addition, it seems like otherwise well informed fans forget that baseball is a sport where a batter is more likely to fail than succeed and that the very best teams will lose a their of their games.

I don't want Ruiz to fail but he continues to do so and the Phillies just kind of shrug.

It's been said over and over again that game threads are reactionary. That's what they are supposed to be. Nobody's going to break out in-depth statistics to prove their point, because the thread moves at a fast pace to keep up with the game. Therefore "Ruiz sucks" takes the place of a well-reasoned two paragraph argument. It's not like this is a happening unique to BSG. Go to UNC's BB MB on game night and read how their All-American point guard sucks after a missed shot and two straight turnovers. I'm sure the USC people bitch when their All-American QB throws a pick or fumbles or gets sacked. If you want to follow the game or get caught up on it, I'd honestly suggest heading to philliesphans. They always have somebody doing PBP and there is rarely any banter. It seems like just one person talking to an empty audience. If the game threads get you down, avoid them.

^^ thats pretty much my take.

I think the number of people who complain "we suck" in every thread is very small. Sure, some people have issues with the current roster or they are worried about trends or whatever else. But the general discourse on this board is as good as any other sports related board. The game threads are meant to be reactionary, I thought, and on games like Friday, only the most annoying optimistic person wouldn't have been slightly peeved with the play of the team.

But it doesn't matter. You can't tell everyone to behave or feel the exact same way, especially regarding something like sports. For as rational as people are, sports can make you say/do irrational things. Its the Conservative ideal to support freedom of thought, right? So maybe we shouldn't be trying to shape the board tone and message just because you're "calm, level-headed and don't worry about individual events/AB/games"...not everyone can be like that. No need to belittle the opinions of those who aren't like you....the royal you.

The constant whining about it is annoying as hell

Whining about positivity? Agreed.

FTN wrote:^^ thats pretty much my take.

I think the number of people who complain "we suck" in every thread is very small. Sure, some people have issues with the current roster or they are worried about trends or whatever else. But the general discourse on this board is as good as any other sports related board. The game threads are meant to be reactionary, I thought, and on games like Friday, only the most annoying optimistic person wouldn't have been slightly peeved with the play of the team.

Friday's game was horrible, and there's no other way to put it. Watching the futility for 12 innings is going to make anyone cranky. But that's not what I see happening in the game threads, and I don't think it's what Vox is talking about either.

Ok but I don't see why it matters what is said in the game thread. Who goes into a game thread to get real time statistical analysis? I see two purposes of the game thread;

1. Actual play by play. But with there being a whole host of sites that give real time box scores, even thats not something to complain about if its not provided.

2. Discussion of the game. If you want to say that Bruntlett blows, I don't see why you should be shunned for that. He does blow. And when he kills a rally, I don't see the issue in being pissed. People are venting their frustration. If some don't want to vent frustration, or they're not frustrated, then I guess thats fortunate for them.

If every thread on this board read like a game thread, then I'd understand the concern about the board tone. But I really don't see how it is a problem. Personally, I think we're all better for reading Trent's Anal fisted by Andre the Giant bombs.

philliesphhan wrote:

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Pherhaps one reason is the Phils blew chunks in interleague play... 3-15, worst in the NL. Albeit, only 3 NL teams had a winning interleague record while only 2 AL teams had a losing record. IIRC, it seems enthusiasm was tempered a bit after interleague play. Another reason may be how the Phils have fared thus far against over .500 teams... 24-35. Even phans that don't know the numbers can sense the Phils haven't been beating "baseball's best" this year, and thus get a sense of "blah".

I understand your overall point, but where did you get that record from? They were 4-11 in Interleague play

2008 Interleague Stats, team-by-team

(the runs scored is just sickening)

Phan In Phlorida wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Pherhaps one reason is the Phils blew chunks in interleague play... 3-15, worst in the NL. Albeit, only 3 NL teams had a winning interleague record while only 2 AL teams had a losing record. IIRC, it seems enthusiasm was tempered a bit after interleague play. Another reason may be how the Phils have fared thus far against over .500 teams... 24-35. Even phans that don't know the numbers can sense the Phils haven't been beating "baseball's best" this year, and thus get a sense of "blah".

I understand your overall point, but where did you get that record from? They were 4-11 in Interleague play

2008 Interleague Stats, team-by-team

(the runs scored is just sickening)

And completely inaccurate. I have no idea where they're getting their numbers from. ESPN.com and baseball-reference both have the Phillies at 4-11.

1-2 vs TOR
1-2 vs TEX
1-2 vs OAK
1-2 vs BOS
0-3 vs LAA

So evidently they think we scored 27 R (with 15 HRs too) in 18 games, but we actually scored 57 in 15 games. Still nothing great but I wonder how they're so off.

TenuredVulture wrote:I have no problem criticizing management or moves the team makes. I've certainly done my share.

What I take objection to is the way in which people over-react to going down 0-1 in the third inning, or proclaiming the suckitude of Jimmy Rollins based on a ground out with RISP. Is it all that important to remind everyone in game threads that Ruiz sucks, that Jimmy sometimes swings when maybe he shouldn't, or that Howard isn't doing as well as he did last year?

The powers that be have pretty clearly built a second rank team, a team that's in contention thanks to a weak division. The plan is pretty obvious--put together a pretty good, not great team on a budget, and hope for the best. It's a dumb plan, and even then, it isn't really executed all that well.

That's about it.... sadly.

MattS wrote:okay, let's not be too rational here, and just talk about something fairly obvious: most of us, including myself, are enjoying this year LESS than last year, despite the fact that they are in first place. why the hell is this?

I can only speak for myself personally, but I have actually been immensely enjoying this season. Best year since 1993 (and no, I'm not even slightly kidding).

We're in first and have been there for most of the season. This despite underperforming. And some of the traditionally weakest areas have looked much better, especially of late. The Marlins won't last, the Mets have their own warts. It's great to look at the standings and see "Philadelphia" in the top spot. It's way better than look at them in third and saying "but we are close enough to take it". Last year was great -- in September. In August it wasn't so much fun and this year is better.

Now, that being said, I don't get to watch every inning on TV. I mostly follow online or check the scores the next morning.

The late 90's were frustrating because we sucked and the team seemed completely unwilling to do anything about it. The first half of this decade sucked because we were thisclose but never seemed to be able to break through. This team OTOH is in first and I have no particular reason to think they can't be there come the end of the season -- sure, they might not be since it's a close race, but they still look like the class of the division and at least have a (small) lead. And the other teams in the division didn't do anything to make themselves better with trades either.

And realistically, it's more interesting to have a race that is close than simply lapping the competition in the division. More anxious as well certainly, but also a more interesting season.

YMMV, but a big reason why I can't bring myself to post on this board and elsewhere about the Phils is simply because I have trouble reconciling how good this year has been with how much frustration is tossed out about the team.

SideshowBob wrote:Now, that being said, I don't get to watch every inning on TV. I mostly follow online or check the scores the next morning.

By comparison, that's how I'm mostly following at the moment, and it makes me feel crap. Pretty much wake up going 'pleasepleasepleaseplease . . . oh.' Or not in the past two games, but still. I think 2001 did bad things to my head.

You guys should become Eagles fans because they've pretty much got it on lock this year.

Anyone send a memo to Myers?

The phils are trying to time their last offense surge just in time for the last 2 weeks of the season and ride it into the playoffs. It's all strategy.

philliesphhan wrote:

Phan In Phlorida wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Pherhaps one reason is the Phils blew chunks in interleague play... 3-15, worst in the NL. Albeit, only 3 NL teams had a winning interleague record while only 2 AL teams had a losing record. IIRC, it seems enthusiasm was tempered a bit after interleague play. Another reason may be how the Phils have fared thus far against over .500 teams... 24-35. Even phans that don't know the numbers can sense the Phils haven't been beating "baseball's best" this year, and thus get a sense of "blah".

I understand your overall point, but where did you get that record from? They were 4-11 in Interleague play

2008 Interleague Stats, team-by-team

(the runs scored is just sickening)

And completely inaccurate. I have no idea where they're getting their numbers from. ESPN.com and baseball-reference both have the Phillies at 4-11.

1-2 vs TOR
1-2 vs TEX
1-2 vs OAK
1-2 vs BOS
0-3 vs LAA

So evidently they think we scored 27 R (with 15 HRs too) in 18 games, but we actually scored 57 in 15 games. Still nothing great but I wonder how they're so off.

Well, MLB.com has them at 3-15 as well. So mebbe that's where CBS Sportsline gets it from.

If I have time later, I'll go through the individual games, cuz dammit I curious now.

4-11 by my count

ya know, yesterday the temp dipped to 70 degrees. The wife closed all the windows and put on a sweater. If they temp was 65 in February, all the windows would be thrown wide open and she'd be prancing around the house in a bikini.

It's kinda like that. Once you've been spoiled by the goodness, any deviation at all to the negative seems extreme.