Wizlah wrote:

Shore wrote:Nah, I'll just continue to bitch about the first place team.

They play 162 games; they're likely going to lose between 70 and 80 of them. Yet, every single time they lose, it's inexcusable. And every single one of them is illustrative of some major goddamned flaw. "They don't hit good pitching." "They don't hit bad pitching." "Their rotation sucks." "Their bullpen sucks/overworked/not structured right." "The manager's an idiot." "They're not clutch" "They only score runs in bunches." Blah blah blah.

Relax, enjoy the season. They are winning their division right now, and we all know they're not playing as well as they could be.

You know what shore? go to hell. That's probably a really bad thing to say to a moderator, but I'm saying it. Really. I read today that the phillies run rate over the last 2 MONTHS is better only than the giants, the nationals and the padres. That is not enjoyable to watch. It would be acceptable if they were at least winning the good games by hamels and moyer, but they can't. not only is that not enjoyable, it's quite frustrating. Furthermore, we've had to watch the distinctly unenjoyable spectacle of one of our main starters crumble slowly and steadily before our eyes. sure, the last two starts, maybe he's turned it around, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but it's not been enjoyable. Watching Brad Lidge look shaky when closing, missing his spots, has not been enjoyable. a sanguine and stoic attitude supported by a knowledge that the stats will prove you right gets you only so far.

Venting aside, the bullpen HAS been structured badly. We're relying on one loogy, and slowly wearing his arm down AND leaving him too long in against the guys he can't really get out. We've got two quite old guys, one of whom is a done for life now. We've been waiting for the fall on this, and done nothing about it. There is nothing enjoyable about watching a bad outcome come closer and closer and doing nothing about it.

What is there exactly to enjoy about the transient nature of being in first when your great strength (hitting) has been absent for a prolonged period, when your rotation has been down to four men and the team braintrust have seen fit to improve it with a man who can at best be described as an above league average innings eater? It's not pleasant to know that you're hanging on to first by your fingernails. It's the sporting equivalent of dangling over a precipice and feeling your grip slowly weaken.

Worse, it comes after a year of great enjoyment and success. Our gambles haven't paid off (jenkins not being done, another alright year out of flash, myers adjusting his head to starting again), so I can see no way to enjoy our good fortune there. Our best player hasn't been playing well as well as last year when he spent a stretch on the disabled list, and in the last month, has been playing considerably worse. Nothing enjoyable there. Plus, there have been what have felt like more than a usual number of games where we have played sloppily, both in the field and at the plate.

Don't come the straw man with all the 'they only hit bad pitching' lines. A sizable chunk of this board have not resorted to such nonesense. there's been no bollix about how we need rowand, or this team just doesn't have guts. Or at least if there has, the general tone of the poster has been out of step with the overall tone of this board.

This isn't pissy little whinging. This is genuine, angry frustration. You want to lay the charge of quitters, go let loose on philaphans. I for one am angry at a team that is stalling and a front office that has done nothing to change things up.

Maybe it genuinely does get better. But don't tell me to enjoy the last two months. Hell, I haven't even been watching every game. If I could have done, you would all know angry.

Last time I checked, wins and losses were not a good measure of how well a team was actually playing. So don't tell me to enjoy first place.

wehatetolose42 wrote:25-32 against teams with a winning record in the NL. 4-11 against the AL.

wehatetolose42 wrote:they have a self-imposed salary cap.

Barry Jive wrote: Sell outs aren't as profitable as near sell outs, because that likely means you left some money on the table.

mpmcgraw wrote:

Barry Jive wrote: Sell outs aren't as profitable as near sell outs, because that likely means you left some money on the table.

What?

Barry Jive wrote:

mpmcgraw wrote:

Barry Jive wrote: Sell outs aren't as profitable as near sell outs, because that likely means you left some money on the table.

What?

Every game takes spending in the form of payroll as well as marketing/advertising etc. Some take more than others (giveaways and the like) to sell tickets. But if you're selling out a game, it likely means there were more people who wanted to give you money, but couldn't buy tickets because of a lack of availability. If you sell tickets to every fan who wants one, it means you maximized the value of that particular game, and you were less likely to overspend on the payroll and advertising for that game.

It takes more spending to produce sell outs, and it doesn't maximize profit. So for the Phillies' stingy owners, sell outs aren't the best case scenario.

Barry Jive wrote:But theoretically you're spending more on marketing and advertising if you're getting more people to want to come to the games. So if you spend more, you'll get more people to want to come than the stadium can hold. If you spend perfectly, you'll get exact capacity to want tickets. It's theoretically more profitable to come up just short than it is to sell out and have people looking for tickets.

And theoretically, spending more on payroll will increase winning percentage, which is also a factor.

wehatetolose42 wrote:hahah @ people trying to seriously to defend the organization and the team.

The team is slightly above average and they've been apparently focusing more on the fan base than the balls their hitting square into the ground in front of home plate or popping up.

Since the Boston series, the Phillies are 5 games below 500. 5 games under .500 over the last 2 months. People are frustrated with the franchise as a whole. They're not playing winning baseball. The red-colored glasses need to come off at some point and people can finally realize that when playing good teams, the Phillies are not that good.

25-32 against teams with a winning record in the NL. 4-11 against the AL.

Since June 16th, they're averaging 4 runs per game. 4.8 runs per game on the year. Last year, the lineup was averaging 5.45 at this point.

The franchise knew they had holes and they didn't fill them. 5th largest market in the country and they have a self-imposed salary cap.

Code: Select all

NY Mets   68   53   .562   -   32-27   36-26   578   524   +54   Won 1   5-5
Philadelphia   65   56   .537   3   33-25   32-31   660   600   +60   Won 2   7-3
Atlanta   64   58   .525   4.5   33-30   31-28   600   563   +37   Lost 2   5-5
Florida   56   66   .459   12.5   27-35   29-31   589   638   -49   Lost 3   4-6
Washington   55   67   .451   13.5   31-32   24-35   473   568   -95   Lost 2   4-6

wehatetolose42 wrote:The franchise knew they had holes and they didn't fill them. 5th largest market in the country and they have a self-imposed salary cap.

Barry Jive wrote:

wehatetolose42 wrote:25-32 against teams with a winning record in the NL. 4-11 against the AL.

Because we all know wins against teams with a winning record count more than wins against teams with a losing record.

wehatetolose42 wrote:they have a self-imposed salary cap.

Every team has a self-imposed salary cap. It's called a budget. Even the Yankees don't buy every free agent on the market.

The Phillies, sadly, are doing exactly as well as they're supposed to be doing. Even with the summer swoon, they're only two games back in the division. They're likely to stay in the race until the last week of the season, even if they don't make the playoffs. And that's all the ownership wants: a team that will sell tickets for most of its home games by staying competitive for the whole season. Sell outs aren't as profitable as near sell outs, because that likely means you left some money on the table.

If this team could average an attendance of 40,000 and finish last in the division, the owners would sell their souls to make it happen. And that's why this team is losing right now. They won't spend big for top-flight free agents and won't bust slot (although this year's draft is promising), which means they won't have trading chips for the Johan Santanas and C.C. Sabathias of the world, which means they will not win a World Series without getting impossibly lucky. Even the Colorado Rockies couldn't ride luck to a championship last year.

Edit: Oh yeah, positivity. Uh, one out of four chance of making the postseason ain't bad?

allentown wrote:I think Rollins is upset that Gillick went out and signed a FA deal with a clearly deteriorating Jenkins that will pay Jenkins more in 2009/10 than Rollins will make and about the same as in 2008. Wealth and poverty are relative. Happiness with a less than luxurious deal falls rapidly when you look at Eaton and Jenkins making about what you do and think of your MVP award and how much marketing value you have to the franchise. Without the $$, you would at least think Rollins would get a little star treatment. Rollins assures us all is well with he and Manuel. It's not. His comments on fans, while true, likely a sign that he is being less cautious with his mouth, because he is angry and wants out of here.

philliesphhan wrote:

allentown wrote:I think Rollins is upset that Gillick went out and signed a FA deal with a clearly deteriorating Jenkins that will pay Jenkins more in 2009/10 than Rollins will make and about the same as in 2008. Wealth and poverty are relative. Happiness with a less than luxurious deal falls rapidly when you look at Eaton and Jenkins making about what you do and think of your MVP award and how much marketing value you have to the franchise. Without the $$, you would at least think Rollins would get a little star treatment. Rollins assures us all is well with he and Manuel. It's not. His comments on fans, while true, likely a sign that he is being less cautious with his mouth, because he is angry and wants out of here.

Wow, this was a ridiculous amount of assuming. You might want to at least check these things before you make these assumptions.

Jenkins contract
08:$5M, 09:$6.75M, 10:$7.5M mutual option ($1.25M buyout)

Rollins contract
08:$7M, 09:$7.5M, 10:$7.5M, 11:$8.5M ($2M buyout)