Wizlah wrote:

dajafi wrote:Born Jewish, culturally Jewish (the guilt, the food), voted "agnostic," but I'm a little biased on the question: I want a Higher Power to exist, so maybe I'm better described as a Deist.

It's becoming clear to me that all religious conflict is an epic battle for the title 'most guilt-ridden'. I've had bammer scots presbyterians sneer at me that they're far more guilt-ridden than the catholics since they don't have confession to make all the bad feelings go away. it's like guilt one-upmanship between them, the catholics and the jews.

I've never heard an Episcopalian ever try to win a guilt contest. It's one of the reasons I converted from Presbyterianism.

Of course most people here are Jewish. We all have good jobs that allow us to surf the net all day. God fearing Catholic garbage men can only post at night.

ace wrote:heathen here

but brought up in an Evangelical Congregational church, which is just this side of crazy

Wait, which side?

Jews invented guilt and like most things christian related, all christian guilt is just a pale imitation of the original

philliesphhan wrote:how does one get Jew blood?

the aids?

I'm catholic, I'm semi practicing. I go to church maybe 15-25 times a year, pray a little bit here and there. My wife goes every week and is quite catholic, but not in your face catholic blessing this and saying grace in restaurants and what not. for us our religion is a private thing. I always felt like the people who make a show of prayer or say grace in a Chinese restaurant or something are more into being catholic to "show off" rather than for the belief of it.

I did have my son circumcised though, help him keep his options open.

Bill McNeal wrote:I did have my son circumcised though, help him keep his options open.

What if he opts to not be circumcised?

phatj wrote:

Bill McNeal wrote:I did have my son circumcised though, help him keep his options open.

What if he opts to not be circumcised?

sucks to be him

Uncle Milty wrote:

phatj wrote:

Bill McNeal wrote:I did have my son circumcised though, help him keep his options open.

What if he opts to not be circumcised?

I WANT MY FORESKIN BACK

YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT BEFORE YOU DATED THE GIRL WITH BRACES

Punchline to old joke:

"Yes, but if you it rub it a little bit it becomes a brief case!"

I'm a Lutheran minister-in-training.

Please don't throw anything at me.

If I believe in god or not, I don't believe said entity cares about what goes on on this planet...i'm sure there's a 'better' earth out there somewhere where he worked out all the kinks

jemagee wrote:If I believe in god or not, I don't believe said entity cares about what goes on on this planet...i'm sure there's a 'better' earth out there somewhere where he worked out all the kinks

If there is a god, I'm sure s/he/it's self assured enough that they don't want people to worship them on a regular basis, lest they be smitten.

Let's not get started on the countless contradictions and illogical beliefs of the Bible, Koran, Torah, etc...


Instead I say we start throwing stuff at Beezer.

Didn't I? wrote:Mark me down as culturally Jewish but religiously agnostic. Not sure what to vote for though. I still consider myself Jewish, I'm just bad at it.

Same.

jemagee wrote:If I believe in god or not, I don't believe said entity cares about what goes on on this planet...i'm sure there's a 'better' earth out there somewhere where he worked out all the kinks

If God wanted to wipe this world clean he would...and will eventually. Now if you're talking about aliens, I don't rule out their existence. They may have been created by the same god. But he left us as the caretakers of our Earth, and (if they exist) them as the caretakers of theirs.

Okay, on to me... I grew up raised in a historically German reformed United Church of Christ, and now am a member of a Presbyterian church, where I feel pretty comfortable. I attend a bible study twice a month, and prefer praying in private. I like churches that have good opportunities for public service and have a creation (environment) care aspect. I dislike being pressured into public prayer at church functions since it feels so much like public speaking without notes. I'm afraid I'll misspeak and offend Him.

Wizlah wrote:

dajafi wrote:Born Jewish, culturally Jewish (the guilt, the food), voted "agnostic," but I'm a little biased on the question: I want a Higher Power to exist, so maybe I'm better described as a Deist.

It's becoming clear to me that all religious conflict is an epic battle for the title 'most guilt-ridden'. I've had bammer scots presbyterians sneer at me that they're far more guilt-ridden than the catholics since they don't have confession to make all the bad feelings go away. it's like guilt one-upmanship between them, the catholics and the jews.

I think I've actually had this argument with my wife (a lapsed Catholic).

Seriously, my personal view is that organized religion serves, or served, in a relationship to moral behavior as training wheels serve to learning how to ride a bicycle. You don't need it, but it probably helps ground the practice (living in a positive way) in an individual mind or a societal tradition.

Perhaps at first you don't kill your neighbor or shtup his wife or steal the wheat because you're scared that a vengeful God will strike you down; hopefully at some subsequent point, you choose not to do these things because you understand that a society in which such deeds go unpunished isn't safe for you or those you love.

Most if not all of the Ten Commandments, and certainly the Golden Rule, happen to be good ideas totallly outside of their theological implications. What you're left with, then, as far as the value of organized religion is:

1) A peer group and/or "higher power" to which one can turn for support or consolation

2) A force that can be leveraged to exert social control and influence the direction of society

(American Christian Dominionism, I'm looking in your direction...)

Uncle Milty wrote:
I think I've had it backwards all my life. When times are good I'm thankful and believe. Bad times are when I question and doubt.

That doesn't sound so backwards to me. I think that's what many of us want to do. Even as a person working in the church, when my mom was diagnosed with stage 3 cancer, believe me, I ranted and railed at God that morning. Granted, I don't believe God caused the cancer- it's just that there are certain things that can't be explained. There is randomness in the world. But still, when I left my mom that day, I remember clearly driving and thinking, "am I talking to something that isn't even there?"

Does that mean that my faith is weak? Maybe. Or really, it's just not perfect. No faith is. Even still, that broken faith has sustained me at times as well. But even though I am a practicing "mainline" protestant (that term makes me roll my eyes), I suppose my understanding of what God is makes me a little bit of a universalist.

so far-

Heathens 23
God-nuts 22

this board is definitely skewed much more than the general populous, I wonder why?

dajafi wrote:Seriously, my personal view is that organized religion serves, or served, in a relationship to moral behavior as training wheels serve to learning how to ride a bicycle. You don't need it, but it probably helps ground the practice (living in a positive way) in an individual mind or a societal tradition.

I think for many of the people in the pews on Sunday mornings, this probably applies. They are looking for the question, "what do I need to do to go to heaven?"

It's not about what you need to do to go to heaven. If there is a big, lofty prize at the end of this thing called life, that kind of makes the whole thing cheap, like life is one big long gameshow, and if you do well enough, you win a new car.... or eternal happiness, whatever.

For me, what my faith means is that even though I foul up and sin and whatnot, there is redemption for me that is on a cosmic level and pretty much out of my hands. I hate the question "Are you saved?" I always want to answer, "for what?" My faith means that I am a part of a brotherhood of humanity that needs to take care of itself.

Too many people use their "faith" to find ways/reasons to hate others who aren't like them, be it based on sexual orientation, race, or whatever. I once asked of an adult Sunday School class, "What if some of the local Hispanic community attended service here?" The answer I got is that they would tell them that there is a Spanish-speaking church over in the next town.

That's not a great answer. I would want them to welcome them, to help them with questions that they had, not say, "oh, your kind can worship over there."

To me, belief in a higher power means that we are all a part of a greater brotherhood/sisterhood/personhood and that we need to stop being selfish (cause we all are) and start looking out for one another. That "looking out for one another" doesn't mean that we put our noses in other people's business where it doesn't belong, either, and that we don't use it for rumors or hate-mongering or any of that stuff that many of us love to do.

Alright, I'm rambling. Done.