Black Lives F*ing Matter, Jesus F*ing Christ (civil rights)

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby Augustus » Thu Jul 09, 2020 16:50:18

I get what you're saying and just want to make it clear that I'm not minimizing how terrible and dangerous Farrakhan is. I'm not Jewish, nor am I a member of any of the multitude of groups that Trump has perpetuated bigotry against, so I don't want to act as an arbiter of who is worse or more racist or whatever.

You're absolutely right that all forms of bigotry should be called out. But unfortunately that's not the world we live in. Millions and millions of white people are getting a pass for supporting racism, so when someone like Jackson is called out I'm sensitive to it. This is a product of white supremacy and the normalization of white bigotry. Black people are being held to a different and higher standard here, just like they are in every arena and every walk of life.

Jackson needs to be called out and admonished, and he needs to educate himself. But if he loses his job while owners continue to cut checks to Trump's campaign, that's white supremacy in action.
Augustus
There's Our Old Friend
There's Our Old Friend
 
Posts: 821
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 22:11:13

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby Monkeyboy » Thu Jul 09, 2020 17:09:29

Augustus wrote:I know all about Farrakhan and find him vile. Supporting him is extremely problematic. Antisemitism is a huge problem in this country. Malik Jackson should be dragged for amplifying him.

However, Trump also has a record of horribly bigoted rhetoric, and as TV pointed out, can actually make policy and has a much larger platform than Farrakhan. Trump has put children in cages. Trump has banned people from the country based upon religion. There have been dozens of Trump-inspired violent incidents across the country.

If white players, coaches, and owners can support Trump without the threat of being cut, fired, or forced to sell their teams, I don't think it's fair to say Malik Jackson should be cut.



My concern is that not saying something about it will allow the right to make it seem like Farrakhan is a major voice of the BLM movement. That will get their based riled up, particularly the religious right. I think we have to speak up against both Trump and Farrakhan, but we can't fire people for supporting either idiot.
Agnostic dyslexic insomniacs lay awake all night wondering if there is a Dog.

Monkeyboy
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 28452
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 21:01:51
Location: Beijing

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Jul 09, 2020 17:11:12

Monkeyboy wrote:
Augustus wrote:I know all about Farrakhan and find him vile. Supporting him is extremely problematic. Antisemitism is a huge problem in this country. Malik Jackson should be dragged for amplifying him.

However, Trump also has a record of horribly bigoted rhetoric, and as TV pointed out, can actually make policy and has a much larger platform than Farrakhan. Trump has put children in cages. Trump has banned people from the country based upon religion. There have been dozens of Trump-inspired violent incidents across the country.

If white players, coaches, and owners can support Trump without the threat of being cut, fired, or forced to sell their teams, I don't think it's fair to say Malik Jackson should be cut.



My concern is that not saying something about it will allow the right to make it seem like Farrakhan is a major voice of the BLM movement. That will get their based riled up, particularly the religious right. I think we have to speak up against both Trump and Farrakhan, but we can't fire people for supporting either idiot.


Most of Farrakhan's ideas align more with the Republican Party than the Democratic Party.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby Monkeyboy » Thu Jul 09, 2020 17:18:36

TenuredVulture wrote:
Monkeyboy wrote:
Augustus wrote:I know all about Farrakhan and find him vile. Supporting him is extremely problematic. Antisemitism is a huge problem in this country. Malik Jackson should be dragged for amplifying him.

However, Trump also has a record of horribly bigoted rhetoric, and as TV pointed out, can actually make policy and has a much larger platform than Farrakhan. Trump has put children in cages. Trump has banned people from the country based upon religion. There have been dozens of Trump-inspired violent incidents across the country.

If white players, coaches, and owners can support Trump without the threat of being cut, fired, or forced to sell their teams, I don't think it's fair to say Malik Jackson should be cut.



My concern is that not saying something about it will allow the right to make it seem like Farrakhan is a major voice of the BLM movement. That will get their based riled up, particularly the religious right. I think we have to speak up against both Trump and Farrakhan, but we can't fire people for supporting either idiot.


Most of Farrakhan's ideas align more with the Republican Party than the Democratic Party.


Yeh, try telling them that. He's coming for their guns so the muslim wave can overcome the masses and instill Sharia law.
Agnostic dyslexic insomniacs lay awake all night wondering if there is a Dog.

Monkeyboy
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 28452
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 21:01:51
Location: Beijing

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby PSUsarge » Thu Jul 09, 2020 17:46:45

Augustus wrote:I get what you're saying and just want to make it clear that I'm not minimizing how terrible and dangerous Farrakhan is. I'm not Jewish, nor am I a member of any of the multitude of groups that Trump has perpetuated bigotry against, so I don't want to act as an arbiter of who is worse or more racist or whatever.

You're absolutely right that all forms of bigotry should be called out. But unfortunately that's not the world we live in. Millions and millions of white people are getting a pass for supporting racism, so when someone like Jackson is called out I'm sensitive to it. This is a product of white supremacy and the normalization of white bigotry. Black people are being held to a different and higher standard here, just like they are in every arena and every walk of life.

Jackson needs to be called out and admonished, and he needs to educate himself. But if he loses his job while owners continue to cut checks to Trump's campaign, that's white supremacy in action.

Completely fair, and appreciate your response here.

Hard to compare the owner / player dynamic (though I agree it's hypocritical), but I don't think Jackson is being held to a higher standard than another NFL player of a different race. If Zach Ertz posted something similar by David Duke, I think he'd be held to at least the same standard, and maybe a higher one considering he spends his work life in a predominantly black locker room and league, the latter of which barely employs a handful of Jewish players.

People will point to Riley Cooper, but I think it can be agreed on that:
1) That was not properly handled in any way
2) While it may not feel like it, especially re: who is occupying the White House, we've made a lot of progress since July 2013. That was before BLM was anywhere near the mainstream, and I think if it happened tomorrow he'd be cut, too.

PSUsarge
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 7286
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 21:14:33
Location: 215

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby PSUsarge » Thu Jul 09, 2020 17:54:14

Monkeyboy wrote:My concern is that not saying something about it will allow the right to make it seem like Farrakhan is a major voice of the BLM movement. That will get their based riled up, particularly the religious right. I think we have to speak up against both Trump and Farrakhan, but we can't fire people for supporting either idiot.

Plus, a link already exists in a voice that BLM looked to after George Floyd's murder - Stephen Jackson - that has obviously been very outspokenly supporting Jackson and, by association, Farrakhan.

PSUsarge
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 7286
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 21:14:33
Location: 215

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby CalvinBall » Fri Jul 10, 2020 08:58:31

Robert Fuller's death ruled a suicide. Had been hospitalized for hearing voices telling him to kill himself. His EBT card was used to buy the same kind of rope used in his death.

CalvinBall
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 64951
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 15:30:02
Location: Pigslyvania

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby PSUsarge » Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:16:48

YIKES :shock:
Malcolm Jenkins wrote:We can honor the Jewish heritage and trauma while staying focused on what matters. Jewish people aren’t our problem, and we aren’t their problem. Let’s not lose focus on what the problem truly is, and that’s that black lives still don’t matter in this country.
Push this energy toward arresting and convicting the killers of Breonna Taylor and burning systemic racism to the ground

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCd-F9Ehydi ... zrztzi4tiu

PSUsarge
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 7286
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 21:14:33
Location: 215

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby Gimpy » Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:20:28

I don’t think that’s supposed to read as the problems facing those communities aren’t the problems of the other communities. I think he means that Jewish people and black people are not enemies (i.e. the other community is not the problem each community is facing).

Not worded well though (and I didn’t watch the video yet so I may be wrong with the way I’m reading it).

Gimpy
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 15670
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:11:47

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby Bucky » Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:31:09

yeah, i read it that way too- that they are not enemies of each other.

Bucky
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 58017
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 19:24:05
Location: You_Still_Have_To_Visit_Us

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby PSUsarge » Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:35:50

I mean saying "Let’s not lose focus on what the problem truly is" kind of implies this is not truly a problem, no?

PSUsarge
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 7286
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 21:14:33
Location: 215

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby Gimpy » Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:43:45

I read that as “let’s not lose focus on systemic racism by saying that Jews are holding us back from our alleged rightful title of ‘the true children of Israel’ [or whatever that batshit fake Hitler quote alleged]”

Gimpy
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 15670
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:11:47

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby Bucky » Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:45:11

no? not that I think that those two things are problems, but he is shifting the emphasis to the "true" problem.

Bucky
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 58017
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 19:24:05
Location: You_Still_Have_To_Visit_Us

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby heyeaglefn » Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:49:08

These players really need to have someone help them with the social media. It shouldn't be this hard to make a clear statement.

heyeaglefn
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 24752
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:21:35

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby JFLNYC » Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:50:21

Gimpy wrote:I don’t think that’s supposed to read as the problems facing those communities aren’t the problems of the other communities. I think he means that Jewish people and black people are not enemies (i.e. the other community is not the problem each community is facing).

Not worded well though (and I didn’t watch the video yet so I may be wrong with the way I’m reading it).


Agree totally. This sort of controversy is exactly what neither community needs: Jews and Blacks should not be pitted against each other — that’s exactly what Hitler would have wanted. I don’t believe for a minute that Jenkins thinks Jewish problems are not important (and I’m Jewish).
Last edited by JFLNYC on Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:51:57, edited 1 time in total.
Jamie

"A man who tells lies . . . merely hides the truth. But a man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it."

JFLNYC
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 34321
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 13:16:48
Location: Location, Location!

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby PSUsarge » Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:50:40

Let's try this again. If Julian Edelman had sent this out, how would people have reacted?

"We can honor the black heritage and trauma while staying focused on what matters. Black people aren’t our problem, and we aren’t their problem. Let’s not lose focus on what the problem truly is, and that’s that Jewish lives still don’t matter in this country.
Push this energy toward (etc.)"

PSUsarge
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 7286
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 21:14:33
Location: 215

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby Bucky » Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:52:25

that's not a very good simile.

Bucky
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 58017
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 19:24:05
Location: You_Still_Have_To_Visit_Us

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby PSUsarge » Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:54:46

This is a good summary
While once again noting that Jenkins plainly states that Jackson's actions are wrong, he uses language that attempts to move the conversation off of a current, relevant story and minimize its importance. "Staying focused on what matters" suggests fighting anti-semitism doesn't matter, even if Jenkins doesn't actually believe that.

Given the effort undertaken to establish Black Lives Matter in the mainstream to begin with — the movement began over half of a decade ago and only achieved broader support in the wake of George Floyd's death — concern over losing traction or attention is understandable. There are plenty of bad-faith actors who are attempting to use Jackson's actions as a means to disparage Black Americans, the motives of Black Lives Matter, and the fight for racial justice. That's a bit of context, to say nothing of the hundreds of years of Black history in America that preceded this moment, that must be considered.

But treating anti-semitism as "a distraction" in support of another just cause is exactly what supporters of Black Lives Matter are asking people not to do. Addressing antisemitism and condemning Hitler, which is pertinent at this moment because of Jackson's mistakes, is not an either/or proposition with supporting the fight for racial justice, nor is it an invented distraction meant to intentionally divert focus. It's a problem that has impacted another marginalized community for thousands of years.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/malcolm-jen ... am-eagles/

PSUsarge
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 7286
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 21:14:33
Location: 215

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby MoBettle » Fri Jul 10, 2020 17:58:03

Dissecting Malcom’s words like this seem sort of akin to asking why only black lives matter.
Two days later I get a text back that says I'm a basketball player and a businessman, not a Thundercat.

MoBettle
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 29294
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 00:45:37
Location: All the way up.

Re: Black Lives F***ing Matter, Jesus F***ing Christ

Postby JFLNYC » Fri Jul 10, 2020 18:04:25

For heaven’s sake, Malcolm Jenkins is a great leader and activist. So perhaps he was less than scrupulous in his word choice and/or reviewing his own work. For someone who has done so much positive can’t we cut the guy a little slack rather than engaging in tiresome gotcha partisanship?

He premised his remarks by saying, “We can honor the Jewish heritage and trauma. . .” so he’s clearly not callous or oblivious to the plight of the Jews. This was not a NYT op-ed.

We’ve got to stop expecting our fellow humans to be perfect, especially quality people like Malcolm Jenkins.
Jamie

"A man who tells lies . . . merely hides the truth. But a man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it."

JFLNYC
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 34321
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 13:16:48
Location: Location, Location!

PreviousNext