the object is to withhold and make the police department defunct. reform doesn't go nearly far enough when we have a whole group of murderers out there untouchable because the only people who can charge them are their lifelong brothers in crime. if a compromise between the two positions is severe budgets cuts and scaling back their mission, that's a good outcome

Houshphandzadeh wrote:the object is to withhold and make the police department defunct. reform doesn't go nearly far enough when we have a whole group of murderers out there untouchable because the only people who can charge them are their lifelong brothers in crime. if a compromise between the two positions is severe budgets cuts and scaling back their mission, that's a good outcome

So, who enforces the law in the absence of the police?

investigators and probably a small group of public servants available to react to rare instances of violent crime

but your question implies that police enforce the law, which they only do to the extent that they protect the property of the wealthy class and harass and undermine poor and working people. police create crime by their constant war of attrition on working class neighborhoods which doesn't improve standards of living but instead puts people in jail for little or nothing, ruins their prospects, breaks up their families, and makes the cycle of poverty harder to escape. when they're not just beating and killing people

Houshphandzadeh wrote:investigators and probably a small group of public servants available to react to rare instances of violent crime

but your question implies that police enforce the law, which they only do to the extent that they protect the property of the wealthy class and harass and undermine poor and working people. police create crime by their constant war of attrition on working class neighborhoods which doesn't improve standards of living but instead puts people in jail for little or nothing, ruins their prospects, breaks up their families, and makes the cycle of poverty harder to escape. when they're not just beating and killing people

Ok then. I think this sounds like delusional wingnuttery but I will play along.

What about non-violent crimes such as speeding? Who will enforce those laws?

and to the extent that people will claim this is crazy and impossible, try to imagine what a public services department could do with half the funding wasted on police each year

06hawkalum wrote:What about non-violent crimes such as speeding? Who will enforce those laws?

cameras would work about a thousand times better to deal with speeding than posting cops

06hawkalum wrote:

Houshphandzadeh wrote:investigators and probably a small group of public servants available to react to rare instances of violent crime

but your question implies that police enforce the law, which they only do to the extent that they protect the property of the wealthy class and harass and undermine poor and working people. police create crime by their constant war of attrition on working class neighborhoods which doesn't improve standards of living but instead puts people in jail for little or nothing, ruins their prospects, breaks up their families, and makes the cycle of poverty harder to escape. when they're not just beating and killing people

Ok then. I think this sounds like delusional wingnuttery but I will play along.

What about non-violent crimes such as speeding? Who will enforce those laws?

What about this do you disagree with?

This is another spot where there's too much focus on the end goal and not the steps to get there.

thephan wrote:

momadance wrote:@bkamisar
Fascinating new # from Monmouth on "defund the police."

—77 percent of adults say the movement aims to "change the way the police departments operate."
—Only 18 percent say it wants to "get rid of police departments."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... blogHeader

Liars. Fake News American Hating Liberal Media report that. I heard that people are saying that it is to get rid of police so that we live in anarchy and achieve a dystopian existence.

F'ed up my 'Trump Talk' with using the word dystopian, didn't I

Isn't the bolded part the goal or Norquist and Bannon?

I've almost posted this a couple times, but I always wonder when I'm on the turnpike why they have police monitoring speed on a road that has you punch in and out while entering and leaving it. The distances between exits is known and the time on the road is known. You could easily calculate the average speed of each car on the road and ticket those who went too fast. You could even use cameras to subtract time spent at rest stops. It seems like they are just trying to do gotcha stuff and make money. If they want to catch people who are deliberately speeding, my approach works much better than getting some guy because he didn't monitor his speed well enough on a long downhill.

This is a bit of a digression, but I've been thinking about it for years.

I actually had a toll collector at the Lehigh valley interchange give me shit once asking how old I was and if I had a license and another time about the time it took me to get from Plymouth meeting. Always tried to break the 30 minute mark. 28 I think was my best time. Dude was way too caught up with his job.

no, they don't. probably even can't. Turnpikes are run by different agencies and a warrant is almost certainly required to get that data. I know that a warrant was required to follow the EZ Pass data of a murder suspect in my township recently.

Can we not encourage doling out speeding tix please?

Bucky wrote:no, they don't. probably even can't. Turnpikes are run by different agencies and a warrant is almost certainly required to get that data. I know that a warrant was required to follow the EZ Pass data of a murder suspect in my township recently.

Is it really a can't situation if push came to shove? I don't see how it's any different from setting up an automated radar and catching people that way. They would need to work with the turnpike commission, of course.

But your point would explain why they never did it. I had no idea. It seems so simple and not really out of the ordinary given what police are able to do in other situations.

Full disclosure, I'm a reformed speeder, but I don't get upset when others speed unless they are also reckless.

I did not expect the "who will hand out speeding tickets" as an objection to the reform/defund the police movement!

Werthless wrote:I did not expect the "who will hand out speeding tickets" as an objection to the reform/defund the police movement!

Really. Also we don't have any problem with someone other than police handing out parking tickets in Philadelphia, other than the PPA sucks.

Defund the police (which i think is a poor and off putting slogan in terms of convincing people who aren’t already on board) seems more politically plausible, and potentially more impactful, in large cities. In NYC for example I see literally dozens on cops out an about on most nights whose only job is to locate and essentially round up homeless people around penn station and Times Square. Which is pretty fucked up and undoubtedly not the best/most cost efficient/most effective way to address the worsening homelessness problem in the area (with the majority of these people suffering from serious mental health and drug issues)

Just need more Andy Taylor and less TJ Hooker. Wouldn't object to more Heather Locklear tho.

On a serious note I agree with the large city impact. Homelessness is one of the best examples to illustrate the point to folks who don't get it.

One of the things I've noticed in since moving to NC is the stark difference between the police and sheriff departments when serving the same function. Of course sheriffs serving a law enforcement role still seems weird to me.

Feel like this Desean Jackson mess has blown up to the point where it may be better to discuss here than in the birts thread.

Quick recap of what else has happened since his post and "apologies":

Stephen Jackson, the former "We Believe" Warriors hero and friend of George Floyd who has since become a highly visible activist, said he "love[s] Jews" but believes the Eagles wideout was "speaking the truth."

The former NBA player then stated that the Rothschild family "owns all the banks," and refused to repudiate the claim that "Jews are trying to divide the Black community."

After drawing strong backlash, Jackson then doubled down in an Instagram post.

Durant and Goodwin became part of the controversy after they engaged with some of Jackson's posts and were subsequently criticized by fans on social media and asked to apologize.

Instagram users noticed that Durant liked Jackson's post praising Farrakhan on the day of his highly controversial July 4 speech, during which he renewed his criticism of Jews and stated Black people should not take a coronavirus vaccine since he believes Bill Gates and Dr. Anthony Fauci are trying to "depopulate the Earth," a conspiracy theory that has been thoroughly debunked.

Jackson's Eagles teammate Goodwin commented, "I wish people commented this much on a BLM topic" on another one of Jackson's posts, and was also subsequently called out by fans. In response, Goodwin distanced himself from Jackson's posts.

https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article ... 394993.php