TenuredVulture wrote:

Werthless wrote:

CalvinBall wrote:Online Warren supporters are so amazingly delusional. She's so great! Why is she losing? When's it's down to three she will surge!!

She is pretty great in a lot of ways. If Bernie Sanders was not in the race, she'd have a lot of support.

I think many Warren supporters, such as myself, value things like competence and an understanding how American politics works. The fact that Warren doesn't run around calling herself a socialist is a pretty big plus in my book. (In fact, though Warren and Sanders are pretty close when it comes to policy, I think Warren's theoretical foundations are much more interesting and workable--more late Rawlsian than early Che Guevera.) We think others should value those things as well. It's apparent that most voters, even Democratic ones, do not seem to value these things much, as they are gravitating towards towards two of the least competent major candidates. They, like Trump voters, appear to be choosing a candidate based on how that candidate makes them feel. (To be sure, the feelings that motivate those candidates are different.)

Got in touch with my feelings this afternoon and cemented my decision to vote for Biden on Tuesday.

PTOITWCFTPP wrote:

CalvinBall wrote:Why should they not earn 15 an hour? Because they're young and don't need it?

Goes to the larger issue of unintended consequences on businesses and the consumer. If that was instituted for all ages, I wouldn’t hire any kid looking for a first job. I’d rather hire an adult.

This is so true. I am a preacher of balance and 7.25 is ridiculously low but 15 is so high. There’s a lot of jobs that are not intended to be careers that shouldn’t be paying 15/hr. All they really do is drive costs higher and hurt those making the jump from lower middle class to middle much more difficult. I spent a lot of time in the restaurant/bar business and this is a huge topic and figuring out how to balance labor/price points to profit.

Monkeyboy wrote:I think it's a mistake to chase the candidate who is most likely to beat Trump. Ultimately, I think the candidate that inspires the most people to get out and vote will have the best chance. I just don't think Biden is that guy. I have trouble believing Biden can win FL or AZ.

For one thing, I have a hunch there's something fishy with the FL voting system. The results from 2018 don't make much sense. One of my many conspiracy theories is that the 2018 FL election was a test for what will happen in 2020 nationwide.

Have you looked at Bernie's share in Florida polls? I don't think he's topped 20% once and is under 15% in many.

pacino wrote:

PTOITWCFTPP wrote:

Bucky wrote:Your business will figure it out and make do. Incredibly short sighted to take a proposal that may affect you in some small way and throw out the whole agenda- which will better the standing of almost everyone in the country, especially those of us not mega-rich-in favor of a guy who is threatening our very democracy, let alone further propping up the wealthy on the backs of working people.

The DNC had 4 years to figure out who their nominee would be and it’s the socialist from last time or Joe Biden. Since those are my options, yeah, everything is on the table with how it relates to my financial future. I don’t think it’s short sighted

your financial future is not tied up with paying your employees less money; if you think that that's kind of sad.

I’m not trying to pay them less. I’m fine with an increase, not more than double. I’d be fine with up to 10 dollars. Running a profitable business, very sad indeed!

JUburton wrote:

PTOITWCFTPP wrote:

JUburton wrote:Terrible news.

I like him. I think he’s a future president, if people can get over him being gay.

Curious timing

Concerned that his votes get evenly distributed enough to push people over viability thresholds and lead us to an awful convention.

I don't share your concern. Pete's support will transfer to Bernie and Biden, mostly by age of supporter.

I really like Pete. Thought he was a flash in the pan at first, then thought if he hung around he might gain momentum. Never materialized. I hope it’s not the last we hear from him.

PTOITWCFTPP wrote:

CalvinBall wrote:Hate to pay my employees wages they can actually come close to living off of.

Most of my staff is between 16-22 years old. They are in school, working 15-20 hours a week. They aren’t living off of this check, it’s their first job or something to help save towards a car or whatever. I do not think they should be earning 15.00 an hour. I’d be fine with an age restriction but Bernie said no to that.

I understand and appreciate your position here. Don't know (or forgot) what business you're in. Can't imagine the restaurants I managed in my younger years surviving with that type of increase, incremental or not.

I don't have the answer. We absolutely need to get real about what's considered poverty level in this country then increase the minimum wage and adjust the tax code appropriately. I fear the unintended consequences of a unilateral $15/hr minimum wage, especially the advantage large corporations have in absorbing it. At the same time any alternative I think of leads to different but equal problems.

In the end my greater priority is providing minimum wage protection for adults supporting themselves and their dependents over dependent minors.

azrider wrote:I really like Pete. Thought he was a flash in the pan at first, then thought if he hung around he might gain momentum. Never materialized. I hope it’s not the last we hear from him.

I would have liked to vote for Pete for many of the same reasons I cast my very first presidential primary vote for Jesse Jackson in 1988.

Uncle Milty wrote:

azrider wrote:I really like Pete. Thought he was a flash in the pan at first, then thought if he hung around he might gain momentum. Never materialized. I hope it’s not the last we hear from him.

I would have liked to vote for Pete for many of the same reasons I cast my very first presidential primary vote for Jesse Jackson in 1988.

Seems like Sanders is your candidate this time around then. They basically have the same platform.

CalvinBall wrote:

Uncle Milty wrote:

azrider wrote:I really like Pete. Thought he was a flash in the pan at first, then thought if he hung around he might gain momentum. Never materialized. I hope it’s not the last we hear from him.

I would have liked to vote for Pete for many of the same reasons I cast my very first presidential primary vote for Jesse Jackson in 1988.

Seems like Sanders is your candidate this time around then. They basically have the same platform.

No. That was a statement vote. Jesse doesn't get my vote if I thought he had any chance.

What’s the statement?

Uncle Milty wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:I think it's a mistake to chase the candidate who is most likely to beat Trump. Ultimately, I think the candidate that inspires the most people to get out and vote will have the best chance. I just don't think Biden is that guy. I have trouble believing Biden can win FL or AZ.

For one thing, I have a hunch there's something fishy with the FL voting system. The results from 2018 don't make much sense. One of my many conspiracy theories is that the 2018 FL election was a test for what will happen in 2020 nationwide.

Have you looked at Bernie's share in Florida polls? I don't think he's topped 20% once and is under 15% in many.

Yes, I looked at the polls in all the toss up states, but I'm not sure what you mean. I don't think Sanders can win there. I also don't think Biden can win there, and that's my point. Just as importantly, if Biden or Sanders win FL, I think they'll already have the election in hand because WI will tip the election. I think both win PA and MI. If Biden wins FL or AZ, he will have already won WI and the overall election because I think AZ and FL are harder to win.

I may change my mind on this as polls come in, but that's my guess based on polls and my hunch of how states will vote.

Especially with the senate up for grabs... liberals and centrists will show up for Biden here in az. Should win +2.

As with any all of the democratic candidates, just got to stay out of the mud in the general.

azrider wrote:Especially with the senate up for grabs... liberals and centrists will show up for Biden here in az. Should win +2.

As with any all of the democratic candidates, just got to stay out of the mud in the general.

Hmmm, well, Sanders has Biden by 14 points right now and he seems to do better in every district, which suggests he is doing better with all kinds of people.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/20 ... t/arizona/

I don't doubt you because you live there and no doubt have a better feel for it than I do, but I'm wondering what makes you feel this way. Sanders seems to do better with dems. Are you saying Biden will inspire a bunch of republicans and non dem primary voters to show up and vote for him? I guess that could happen, but Biden doesn't really seem to be inspiring people at the moment, nor has he really done it at any point in his career.

I'm just having trouble seeing how Biden will outperform Sanders there enough to warrant people thinking it's in play for Biden but not for Sanders. If it's not in play for Sanders, I have trouble thinking it will be in play for Biden.

It’s going to turn into a socialist vs. capitalism game in the general and it will get very ugly for sanders even in az which wants to turn blue. If sanders gets the nom he will take Kelly down with him.

Team trump will link sanders to the kremlin itself. If he didn’t have to go out and do something stupid like call himself a socialist, he would win here. Republicans have always called democrats socialists/communists and it has helped them and whoever the candidate would be, would be called one, but to label yourself one, is a pretty big deal and one very difficult to walk away from.

Sanders is a little further left for me than I’d like regarding policy, but he really has a true sense with regards to the citizens of this country. He’s someone who authentically cares. And I also know he won’t get everything he hoped for if he would win, so he has my vote in the general. Unfortunately I’m probably in a very small minority regarding that thought.

I'm wondering if sanders can turn that socialism label on it's head by pointing out that TRump gives money away, he just gives it to corporations and rich people. Maybe it won't work, but it's a powerful argument, imo, and the people he does get with that line may be poor white voters who voted Trump last time. The only thing better than getting out your own base is stealing the base of your opponent.

If it's Sanders/Trump, it will be the election of a lifetime to determine the direction of the country. Turnout will be very high and high turnout tends to help dems.

PTOITWCFTPP wrote:

pacino wrote:

PTOITWCFTPP wrote:

Bucky wrote:Your business will figure it out and make do. Incredibly short sighted to take a proposal that may affect you in some small way and throw out the whole agenda- which will better the standing of almost everyone in the country, especially those of us not mega-rich-in favor of a guy who is threatening our very democracy, let alone further propping up the wealthy on the backs of working people.

The DNC had 4 years to figure out who their nominee would be and it’s the socialist from last time or Joe Biden. Since those are my options, yeah, everything is on the table with how it relates to my financial future. I don’t think it’s short sighted

your financial future is not tied up with paying your employees less money; if you think that that's kind of sad.

I’m not trying to pay them less. I’m fine with an increase, not more than double. I’d be fine with up to 10 dollars. Running a profitable business, very sad indeed!

Are you telling them this morning they're now being paid $10 an hour? That should be cool.

The Dude wrote:What’s the statement?

Curious about the answer to this as well

if i ever needed validation for why PTOI is the worst poster on this board

jamiethekiller wrote:if i ever needed validation for why PTOI is the worst poster on this board

Lol