Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby Monkeyboy » Thu Aug 08, 2019 01:02:50

If they paid those laborers more and americans wanted the jobs, then they would have to increase the cost of the goods. Guess who would be the first to complain about the increased prices.
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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby pacino » Thu Aug 08, 2019 07:01:42

the raids are a tool of keeping immigrant labor quiet and powerless. e-verify is a way to do the same; UFCW represents these workers and had finally gotten the feds to hit the employer for a terrible workplace and hopefully things were going to turn around and NOW is when they raid????

And i highly doubt all 680 workers are even undocumented. more than likely they had a warrant for a few people and then rounded up anyone who didn't have their goddamn LPR card or birth certificate on them. it's a tactic to boost their numbers and hurt people's lives.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby pacino » Thu Aug 08, 2019 07:13:19

new F&M Poll for pA:

When voters were asked which Democratic candidate they would choose today, Biden led with 28 percent, followed by Sen. Elizabeth Warren in second with 21 percent. Rounding out the top five Democratic candidates in the F&M poll were Sen. Bernie Sanders (12 percent), Sen. Kamala Harris (8 percent) and Pete Buttigieg (6 percent).
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby thephan » Thu Aug 08, 2019 07:18:41

Where the fine academic theory of illegal aliens are depressing wages, the real world requires inspection of multivariable circumstances. Basically the short theory of these folks taking good American jobs does not apply. These, like hundreds of other jobs in the US, are jobs citizens do not want and will not apply for. If, by chance, a citizen does apply there are cannons of stories about how most don't even last 3 days.

These are jobs in chicken processing plants. Like jobs in the cattle industry, or agriculture, or food service, or most any manual labor there are not willing bodies to do the work. I once worked with a central state that is largely agrarian. The work involved state ID anti-counterfeiting efforts. One day the state official ran a query to show me the names flying by the screen of people that they estimated were about 80% illegal worker (the Spanish version of Joe Smith basically), but all these folks had drivers licenses, insurance, and paid taxes. The official explained that these were good citizens working hard and needed to be protected. The work in the beef industry and take extra work during the harvest to make the state economy and the country's food system stable. Her biggest complaint was that they were forced into scenarios where they needed to access pay day loans.

Some legal path is the imperative, but is it even remotely a reality? This scenario is nothing new, and that gig in the heartland was at least 14 years ago.
Last edited by thephan on Thu Aug 08, 2019 07:42:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby 06hawkalum » Thu Aug 08, 2019 07:33:00

Public facing federal agencies were recently instructed not to display any material related to the 2020 census.

At least the administration's motives are blatantly obvious. They aren't even trying to hide the fact that they are trying to suppress the counting of minorities.
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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby jamiethekiller » Thu Aug 08, 2019 07:35:38

pacino wrote:new F&M Poll for pA:

When voters were asked which Democratic candidate they would choose today, Biden led with 28 percent, followed by Sen. Elizabeth Warren in second with 21 percent. Rounding out the top five Democratic candidates in the F&M poll were Sen. Bernie Sanders (12 percent), Sen. Kamala Harris (8 percent) and Pete Buttigieg (6 percent).


It's Biden vs the field IMO. If Biden doesn't haven't more than 40% he'll never win the general. Those 60% spread out will far more likely vote for Warren or Sanders than for Biden. It'll be a vote left home again.

Feel like that somehow needs to be realized. A ranked vote would be amazing in the primary.

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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby 06hawkalum » Thu Aug 08, 2019 07:38:44

jamiethekiller wrote:
pacino wrote:new F&M Poll for pA:

When voters were asked which Democratic candidate they would choose today, Biden led with 28 percent, followed by Sen. Elizabeth Warren in second with 21 percent. Rounding out the top five Democratic candidates in the F&M poll were Sen. Bernie Sanders (12 percent), Sen. Kamala Harris (8 percent) and Pete Buttigieg (6 percent).


It's Biden vs the field IMO. If Biden doesn't haven't more than 40% he'll never win the general. Those 60% spread out will far more likely vote for Warren or Sanders than for Biden. It'll be a vote left home again.

Feel like that somehow needs to be realized. A ranked vote would be amazing in the primary.


This isn't 2016. Progressives aren't going to sit home and allow RBG's seat be taken by a Kavanaugh clone.
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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby pacino » Thu Aug 08, 2019 07:48:00

Fwiw, the poll also indicated Warren led the field at 25% in 2nd choice, with Harris at 16%, Biden and Sanders both at 15% and Buttigeg at 12%.

It would seem if Sanders and Warren do have a pact and take this to the convention or one does a dropout, it'll be theirs from what I've seen.

It's gonna be Biden, Warren or Sanders, IMO.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby TomatoPie » Thu Aug 08, 2019 07:48:29

Wolfgang622 wrote:
thephan wrote:I bet the residence of central Mississippi are cracking bottles of champagne tonight, because DHS rolled up 680 illegals today. Where were these lollygag are’s at? Are they down on the corner? Were they plotting crimes like the masterminds they are? Were they murdering and reaping are women? What insidious thing where they doing?

The answer is that this big read took down a serious menace to our society, if crushed the workforce operating on the dayshift add a handful of factories.


In this climate I am loath to admit it, but I do have mixed feelings about this.

A crime is being committed here that arguably depresses wages both for the people in question and for the community at large, and deprives citizens and/or documented guests of work.

I think something should have been done.

That something is: come in and serve the goddamn employer with one hell of a fine that can be greatly reduced or eliminated by doing the following:

1. Submit expedited guest worker application visas for the people in his/her employ;

2. Certify and/or prove that you are doing all of the following: paying these people the federal minimum wage; backpaying them for any hours paid that were not at the minimum; paying and backpaying for all such employees all Medicare, social security, and other applicable taxes;

Or the employer can pay the prohibitive fine, which will be used to compensate employees who will no longer be able to work and will have to either return home or apply for residency status, for which they will be given priority status (meaning they will be fast-tracked). The employer may then hire properly documented workers, of course. If the employer decides to declare bankruptcy in order to try to avoid either, the government becomes the first-in-line creditor who must be made completely whole before anyone else gets a dime. Assets liquidated in such a proceeding will again be used to compensate dismissed employees, documented or otherwise.

Or they could just hire correctly in the first place!

The point is: it is a problem, it does cause resentment, it has an economic impact, and the cause of almost all of it is: capitalists. So the punishment should be theirs.


Really great post but attributing the misdeeds to "capitalists" makes it sound like capitalism is the problem. It's hardly more accurate that labeling them "Baptists" or "Nascar fans." They may be all three, but none are contributing factors.

The root of the problem is an immigration policy that allows only a trickle of cheap labor to enter legally, and then the criminal employers who break the rules that regulate our capitalist society. You are indeed very right that the employers should be the ones to take the punishment here.
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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby thephan » Thu Aug 08, 2019 07:53:53

I feel like it is a hot take that sleepy joe will not bring out the votes. There are two dozen people in the race, and those percentages total up to 75%, so there is 25% up for grabs with the current lake of candidates. Assume that Bernie 12 goes to Warren which puts her at 33%, but Harries and Mayors go to Biden racking him to 42%, then there is still that 25%. As I would expect the poll to count likely voters, then you could expect most to fall in line and vote for the candidate (i.e., an 06Hawkalum what he said).

The problem with the giant pack is that little of these counting metrics are reflective of much at this point. all the more reason that the bottom 50% need to figure out what their next act is.
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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby thephan » Thu Aug 08, 2019 07:55:41

TP - Don't forget the Walmarting of America to addict us to cheap, replaceable goods. That has as much to do with it.
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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby Uncle Milty » Thu Aug 08, 2019 09:28:39

America created Walmart. Walmart didn't create this America.
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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby JUburton » Thu Aug 08, 2019 09:34:32

Isn't the 'they're taking good american jobs and they depress wages' sort of a myth? They are mostly taking jobs that people here do not want to do (low skill, low pay) and the real irony is that it likely disproportionately affects poor black people...not the people trump is trying to protect exactly. I'd think the standard republican policies (complete free trade, union busting) and now trump policies (tariffs) hurt american workers far more than the tide of illegal immigration.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... -americans

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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Aug 08, 2019 09:39:13

Not the worst thing he's done this week, but Trump looking like he's getting set to commute Blago's sentence because his wife has been whining on Fox News is embarrassing

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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby thephan » Thu Aug 08, 2019 09:53:03

If Fox News said for a week straight that American's deserved free tacos on Tuesday, would there be a Taco Tuesday EO?
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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby The Sarge » Thu Aug 08, 2019 09:56:44

jerseyhoya wrote:Not the worst thing he's done this week, but Trump looking like he's getting set to commute Blago's sentence because his wife has been whining on Fox News is embarrassing




That and he was on the Apprentice.

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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby Gimpy » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:05:35

JUburton wrote:Isn't the 'they're taking good american jobs and they depress wages' sort of a myth? They are mostly taking jobs that people here do not want to do (low skill, low pay) and the real irony is that it likely disproportionately affects poor black people...not the people trump is trying to protect exactly. I'd think the standard republican policies (complete free trade, union busting) and now trump policies (tariffs) hurt american workers far more than the tide of illegal immigration.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... -americans


There should be kind of a “no shit” reaction when someone says that automation (rather than immigrants) is eliminating jobs for unskilled labor.

But it’s kind of astonishing that some people can hold both of these two beliefs about immigrants:

1) the people coming over the border;
-are the worst their society has to offer
-can’t be integrated into our culture
-won’t learn our language
-come here with no resources, no place to live, no way or desire to better themselves

AND 2) the person described above can take my job

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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby TomatoPie » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:13:19

thephan wrote:TP - Don't forget the Walmarting of America to addict us to cheap, replaceable goods. That has as much to do with it.


Sure not to be a popular opinion here: For the most part, cheap Chinese goods are a boon to poor Americans and even middle class Americans. My house is full of this stuff, leaving me more money to spend on services or retirement planning. It's good for Chinese laborers and it's good to help establish trading relations with the world's most important nation, despite all Trump's efforts to spoil the party. Is if rife with abuses that need correction? Sure. But today's critics of WalMart would have been yesterday's critics of Henry Ford's assembly line. Plus, these dynasties don't last. Target weakened Walmart and Amazon may kill it.
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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby thephan » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:35:17

But cheap 'fast fashion' versus quality goods is a discussion too. The over consumerism driven by Old Navy type look of the week flash sales and gimmicky hype cycles is a same/different problem. A great deal of waste is generated in this as well.
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Re: Politics Thread: Wear Your SPF and Don't Get Bernie'd

Postby thephan » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:37:04

680 jobs in central Mississippi now available for people ready to ring the necks of chickens and de-feather the birds. How many applicants will there be?
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