Houshphandzadeh wrote:it's funny that this is being framed as some kind of a takedown by the far left when it's mostly being debated right on the middle-of-the-road op ed pages of NYT and WaPo (and middle-of-the-road BSG, for that matter). any progressive dismissed Biden a long time ago based on his Republican-lite policy stances

Seriously, I don’t want him to be the dem candidate and it has nothing to do with any alleged handsiness.

Bankruptcy Biden

back to 13 angry democrats per Rudy

"A puppet does not collude. It performs.”

Houshphandzadeh wrote:it's funny that this is being framed as some kind of a takedown by the far left when it's mostly being debated right on the middle-of-the-road op ed pages of NYT and WaPo (and middle-of-the-road BSG, for that matter). any progressive dismissed Biden a long time ago based on his Republican-lite policy stances

It certainly hasn't stopped the far left from weighing in on the issue.

I haven’t really seen it discussed in my far left travels as more than a footnote on why he’d be a bad candidate. Care to enlighten me a little on where it’s being fixated on by the marxists?

I haven't been reading any Marxists recently but if you'd really like to find something on the subject I'm sure Google is your friend.

You’re the one bemoaning the far left. I just visited a few far left subreddits and the conversation is dominated by policy discussion and complaints that the media is ignoring Sanders despite his lead in fundraising. I saw one article calling Biden a bad candidate, and his touchiness was far down the list of complaints.

While I self-identify as a liberal and a D and a unabashed Trump-hater, my ideology (which I would best describe as Democrat Pragmatist) will, I have no doubt, shortly be referred to as DINO. And that’s a shame. A small tent just cedes the battlefield to the worst in this country. While my vote is guaranteed D, the non-starter policy ideas I hear from those far left of me (bereft of substance and perfect for Twitter) make me want to disengage. I won’t do that now because the stakes are too high.

Anyway, I’m afraid that the Dems are going to fuck up the single most important thing at stake in 2020 - beating Trump. Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Virginia are the only states that matter for beating Trump. Catering to issues that don’t resonate there = 4 more years of fuckface. I’m not in this for principle. This is about winning at all costs.

I’m for universal healthcare and anti-corruption measures. Those are also very popular stances across the country, even in red or purple states. I’m not concerned about the dems losing on policy regardless of who runs.

Harris / Booty Judge

There are a few things going on--first, Bernie is the darling of some one what you might call the far left, but a lot of other people on the left don't like Bernie much, even if they support at least some of his policy positions.

Second, there's a perception among some on the left that going hard right hasn't hurt the Republicans at all, and in fact may be helping them. People like AOC, for all her faults, seem to be bringing an energy that most see as necessary. They reject the centrism and old fashioned style of compromise championed by people like Biden and Schumer (and to be honest, HRC).

Regarding Biden specifically--there are a couple of things working against him. First, his track record as a Presidential candidate is pretty dismal. Second, he's taken positions on a number of issues such as bankruptcy--he clearly was carrying water for the credit card industry, and voting for the Iraq war that alienate him from where most Democrats are.

I do think he's among the most conservative Democrats running for Senate. Since Biden and Bernie have the most name recognition, the media is portraying them as the leaders of two Democratic factions fighting for the soul of the party, Of course, this is stupid, as Bernie isn't even a Democrat, and Biden is pretty far to the right of most Democrats.

There's also this tantalizing idea that somehow a left wing populist could really win back a lot of Trump voters in red states. Consider Arkansas--we're deep red now, but we also passed, through referendum, a pretty big increase in the minimum wage--it's current 9.25 an hour (remember, this is historically a "low wage state") and is slated to go up to $11. This passed by a huge margin--something like 60-40. If a deep red state is willing to do that, why would they not vote for a real economic populist (like say Elizabeth Warren) instead of a phoney one?

The problem of course is our racist, backwards mouth breathing culture, which for a big chunk of our voters seems to outweigh economic self-interest.

I think my rankings right now go Warren, Buttigieg, Sanders but there’s a lot of room for change depending on the next year/debates/everything. It’s a huge field where many have yet to differentiate themselves.

I also recognize that I live in a state where the Democrat is winning the EC votes anyway and the primary is late enough that it shouldn’t matter who I want to vote for, so it’s a question of who I would donate to: but I’m more inclined to donate to any candidates in close House races so my opinion on who should be running for president really doesn’t matter at all.

TenuredVulture wrote:If a deep red state is willing to do that, why would they not vote for a real economic populist (like say Elizabeth Warren) instead of a phoney one?

The problem of course is our racist, backwards mouth breathing culture, which for a big chunk of our voters seems to outweigh economic self-interest.

Also it's a lot easier to just straight-up lie than to explain policies and have it take hold in today's media landscape. A lot of the Trump voters wanted their healthcare to be further left than Obamacare (ie, more like their neighbors' Medicaid, which had the double whammy in many cases of fueling the racial resentment) but had a weak grasp on which party stood for what

TenuredVulture wrote:There's also this tantalizing idea that somehow a left wing populist could really win back a lot of Trump voters in red states. Consider Arkansas--we're deep red now, but we also passed, through referendum, a pretty big increase in the minimum wage--it's current 9.25 an hour (remember, this is historically a "low wage state") and is slated to go up to $11. This passed by a huge margin--something like 60-40. If a deep red state is willing to do that, why would they not vote for a real economic populist (like say Elizabeth Warren) instead of a phoney one?

The problem of course is our racist, backwards mouth breathing culture, which for a big chunk of our voters seems to outweigh economic self-interest.

There’s no chance in 2020 of wining Arkansas or Georgia or NC or Texas. That’s fools gold.

Biden's run would essentially be about identity and bereft of any policy aims or appeal.

Trent Steele wrote:While I self-identify as a liberal and a D and a unabashed Trump-hater, my ideology (which I would best describe as Democrat Pragmatist) will, I have no doubt, shortly be referred to as DINO. And that’s a shame. A small tent just cedes the battlefield to the worst in this country. While my vote is guaranteed D, the non-starter policy ideas I hear from those far left of me (bereft of substance and perfect for Twitter) make me want to disengage. I won’t do that now because the stakes are too high.

Anyway, I’m afraid that the Dems are going to fuck up the single most important thing at stake in 2020 - beating Trump. Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Virginia are the only states that matter for beating Trump. Catering to issues that don’t resonate there = 4 more years of fuckface. I’m not in this for principle. This is about winning at all costs.

Preach.

Tim Ryan, Representative from Ohio announces he is running for President.