The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Thread

Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby thephan » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:36:07

Trent Steele wrote:I hate Bernie Sanders and he is by a wide margin my last choice in the D primaries.


Agree
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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby thephan » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:37:43

Grotewold wrote:
pacino wrote:this is the first time people from the Mueller team are talking and it's to counter Barr's assessment of their report


would of been nice to say this 10 days ago


Not sure why they waited, but now it is there. Barr seems to be walking things back some, but he is hardly convincing. I suspect that there will be a leak if things are heading in a nefarious direction.
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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby traderdave » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:44:14

The Department of Justice on Thursday defended Attorney General William Barr's summary of special counsel Robert Mueller's confidential report after two newspapers said Mueller's investigators felt Barr didn't properly convey how damaging their findings were for President Donald Trump. A Justice Department spokeswoman said "every page" of Mueller's nearly 400-page report provided to Barr on March 22 was flagged as potentially containing material covered under a law that protects confidential grand jury information and "therefore could not be publicly released."

You wouldn't have to defend the summary if you would just release the whole damn report. I may have shared this story before and, if I did, I apologize for repeating myself. I was once involved in a situation that resulted in special counsel investigating claims of racism. The investigation took about one year and ended up, unlike with Trump, completely and unequivocally exonerating my organization. Naturally, my organization wanted to release the report immediately because it showed that we did nothing wrong and the claims were baseless. My point? It would seem to me that if the report really did "completely and unequivocally" exonerate Trump, they would be tripping over themselves to shove it in everyone's face. I mean, look at their reaction to the six paragraph summary.

I haven't seen anything. What is Barr walking back?

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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby Monkeyboy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:51:56

There's this one clip of Biden trying to kiss a young girl and it sure does look creepy. He's on stage in front of everyone and his wife or someone is trying to get him to back off. She looked like a 14 year old redhead, I think the daughter of someone else who was on stage. I'll stay out of the general argument, but I don't know much about it, but that one clip was pretty dang creepy, regardless of age.

edit: Here it is. There are others. I find it troubling that the girls are often quite young.

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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby JFLNYC » Thu Apr 04, 2019 13:10:03

It looks to me as if he bent down, whispered something nice to a colleague’s daughter and then gave her a peck on the head. The girl even thanked him. If you want to see monsters under the bed I can’t stop you but, honestly, people’s reactions (“young girls,” “creepy Uncle Joe” trope) to all this stuff says more about them than it does about Biden.
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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby Wolfgang622 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 13:10:42

thephan wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:I hate Bernie Sanders and he is by a wide margin my last choice in the D primaries.


Agree


Not a team player and I think we've had quite enough of that already from the President of the United States.
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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby JUburton » Thu Apr 04, 2019 13:23:58

JFLNYC wrote:It looks to me as if he bent down, whispered something nice to a colleague’s daughter and then gave her a peck on the head. The girl even thanked him. If you want to see monsters under the bed I can’t stop you but, honestly, people’s reactions (“young girls,” “creepy Uncle Joe” trope) to all this stuff says more about them than it does about Biden.
No it doesn't. Dude has personal space issues with women. I would be shocked if there is video of him doing that with men.

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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby JUburton » Thu Apr 04, 2019 13:26:11

Note, it would be wrong and weird with men too.

It's just arguably worse that it's only with women.

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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby Gimpy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 13:43:12

I like Sanders - he’s pulled the Dems to the left over the past few years, gotten many people excited about politics and involved in the process, and has policy that lines up well with my ideals.

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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby traderdave » Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:01:37

I like Sanders too; just not sure I want him as my president (except over Trump and/or Pence).

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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby D2S » Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:03:10

I kinda like Biden, but I don't want him running and he is definitely creepy af. First, I don't get kissing unless it tongue wrestling or it's your own kid's forehead. That's it. Old people kissing is gross because old people are gross. Biden giving a peck is gross.
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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby JFLNYC » Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:04:32

JUburton wrote:Dude has personal space issues with women. I would be shocked if there is video of him doing that with men.


JUburton wrote:Note, it would be wrong and weird with men too.

It's just arguably worse that it's only with women.


You're wrong about his treatment of men and in general.

The new narrative about Biden suggests that he is exploitative and solipsistic in his encounters with women. Although I did not witness what the women who have come forward to criticize Biden experienced, and only they can say how these encounters felt to them, it seems relevant that Biden is touchy-feely with everyone—not just women, but children and men, too. My kids fought to be plus-ones for Biden events because of the type of behavior that is being called into question. He habitually nuzzled, hugged, and kidded around with them. But he wasn’t just physical. He tuned in emotionally. In the below photo, while a long line of influentials wait for his attention, Biden is listening to my 7-year-old’s concerns about Syrian kids.

Image

After these encounters, I asked the question of the moment: Why does the guy act this way? Those who cite power dynamics are both exactly wrong and onto something. In Washington, warm welcomes are generally reserved for the most influential or the highest-dollar campaign donors. Sometimes that policy is explicit: You get a faux-intimate photo in exchange for a large PAC contribution. Biden’s disregard of this protocol is telling. He enters a room, just as he enters a debate about union rights or domestic violence, with a predisposition to lend an ear to the least powerful.

Judging from the reaction to the recent spate of Biden stories, time is up on avuncular attention, now interpreted as at best pernicious paternalism and at worst septuagenarian sexual harassment. In the cultural revolution under way in America, men like Biden are invited to offer their head if their prior actions deviated from the new norms.

No doubt, character counts. I, for one, admire Biden’s deviant decency.


Joe Biden’s Deviant Decency

These ever-increasing takes from the left are beginning to sound a lot like the early days of the Soviet Union or Mao's Cultural Revolution when deviation from strict orthodoxy was viewed, at best, as insanity and, at worst, treason and where children were encouraged to turn in their parents if the latter uttered anything which was not ideologically pure.

It's ironic that the far left of the party of the "differents" is more and more sowing the seeds of intolerance and lack of acceptance for anyone who isn't different in the right way. I'm glad I'm old enough that I likely won't be around when that harvest is reaped.
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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby JUburton » Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:07:20

I specifically meant adult men. I will bet you that he does not smell adult men's hair or kiss them on the head.

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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby JUburton » Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:08:20

JFLNYC wrote:These ever-increasing takes from the left are beginning to sound a lot like the early days of the Soviet Union or Mao's Cultural Revolution when deviation from strict orthodoxy was viewed, at best, as insanity and, at worst, treason and where children were encouraged to turn in their parents if the latter uttered anything which was not ideologically pure.

It's ironic that the far left of the party of the "differents" is more and more sowing the seeds of intolerance and lack of acceptance for anyone who isn't different in the right way. I'm glad I'm old enough that I likely won't be around when that harvest is reaped.
This is insane when its genesis is defense of a man who has boundary problems.

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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby swishnicholson » Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:12:15

Monkeyboy wrote:There's this one clip of Biden trying to kiss a young girl and it sure does look creepy. He's on stage in front of everyone and his wife or someone is trying to get him to back off. She looked like a 14 year old redhead, I think the daughter of someone else who was on stage. I'll stay out of the general argument, but I don't know much about it, but that one clip was pretty dang creepy, regardless of age.

edit: Here it is. There are others. I find it troubling that the girls are often quite young.



That one's been specifically rejected by the family as being inappropriate.
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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby TomatoPie » Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:15:55

JFLNYC wrote:]The new narrative about Biden suggests that he is exploitative and solipsistic in his encounters with women. Although I did not witness what the women who have come forward to criticize Biden experienced, and only they can say how these encounters felt to them, it seems relevant that Biden is touchy-feely with everyone—not just women, but children and men, too. My kids fought to be plus-ones for Biden events because of the type of behavior that is being called into question. He habitually nuzzled, hugged, and kidded around with them. But he wasn’t just physical. He tuned in emotionally. In the below photo, while a long line of influentials wait for his attention, Biden is listening to my 7-year-old’s concerns about Syrian kids.

After these encounters, I asked the question of the moment: Why does the guy act this way? Those who cite power dynamics are both exactly wrong and onto something. In Washington, warm welcomes are generally reserved for the most influential or the highest-dollar campaign donors. Sometimes that policy is explicit: You get a faux-intimate photo in exchange for a large PAC contribution. Biden’s disregard of this protocol is telling. He enters a room, just as he enters a debate about union rights or domestic violence, with a predisposition to lend an ear to the least powerful.

Judging from the reaction to the recent spate of Biden stories, time is up on avuncular attention, now interpreted as at best pernicious paternalism and at worst septuagenarian sexual harassment. In the cultural revolution under way in America, men like Biden are invited to offer their head if their prior actions deviated from the new norms.

No doubt, character counts. I, for one, admire Biden’s deviant decency.


Beautiful. What I was trying to say, but with real life testimony.
The world needs more Joe, not less.
Last edited by TomatoPie on Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:17:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby JUburton » Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:17:01

MULTIPLE WOMEN HAVE COME FORWARD SAYING WHAT HE DID WAS INAPPROPRIATE TO THEM AND MADE THEM FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE AND EVEN JOE HAS SAID HE WILL REEVALUATE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby TomatoPie » Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:20:40

JUburton wrote:MULTIPLE WOMEN HAVE COME FORWARD SAYING WHAT HE DID WAS INAPPROPRIATE TO THEM AND MADE THEM FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE AND EVEN JOE HAS SAID HE WILL REEVALUATE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE


It's legit that they felt uncomfortable, and Joe is right to re-assess and adjust.

I just lament that some recoil at Joe; instead we should be feeling sadness for those who can't easily recognize and receive genuine human kindness. It's humankind going backwards. We should all - instinctively - be repulsed by Trump and inspired by Biden.
Last edited by TomatoPie on Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:21:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby thephan » Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:21:01

I need to dig into the "walk back". That might be a bit of an overstatement, but there was something I saw earlier that seemed like a softening on the defense of 'no impropriates'. Something like it is obvious that a summary cannot cover the totality of the information in the report, and how it would be interpreted. I'll see if I can clean it up some later.
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Re: The Report That Changed The World (or not) - Politics Th

Postby Houshphandzadeh » Thu Apr 04, 2019 14:28:26

it's funny that this is being framed as some kind of a takedown by the far left when it's mostly being debated right on the middle-of-the-road op ed pages of NYT and WaPo (and middle-of-the-road BSG, for that matter). any progressive dismissed Biden a long time ago based on his Republican-lite policy stances

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