Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby pacino » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:05:50

he was HIS OWN MAN

tbf, he's a good union man so I'm a bit harsh there. But this reminds me of Pittsburgh DSA recently not endorsing Fetterman for Lt Governor because he didn't explicitly support the primary opponent of Dom Costa (I do support the opponent). You have to pick your battles.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby CalvinBall » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32:33

pacino wrote:big news

Pennsylvania has agreed to return control of Philadelphia's public school system to the city after 16 years of state oversight.

Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf announced Wednesday he will accept the recommendation of the School Reform Commission, which voted last month to dissolve itself and turn control of the district over to a locally appointed school board.

The administration also will rescind the designation labeling the district as "distressed."

The move will take effect June 30.


Big news a few months ago yeah

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby pacino » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:34:03

CalvinBall wrote:
pacino wrote:big news

Pennsylvania has agreed to return control of Philadelphia's public school system to the city after 16 years of state oversight.

Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf announced Wednesday he will accept the recommendation of the School Reform Commission, which voted last month to dissolve itself and turn control of the district over to a locally appointed school board.

The administration also will rescind the designation labeling the district as "distressed."

The move will take effect June 30.


Big news a few months ago yeah

the governor actually had to sign off on it
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby The Sarge » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:47:42

Moore filed a lawsuit to block Alabama from certifying Jones' election. He claims voter fraud.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/us/p ... ction.html
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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby pacino » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:23:53

The Alabama Secretary of State, a very conservative Republican, is certifying the results
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Dec 28, 2017 13:05:02

I've been seeing references to the DSA (Democratic Socialists of America, right?) pop up frequently over the last few months. Now, as far as I know, they've been around forever, but relatively marginal. (I mean, I've actually read Michael Harrington, so...) In my day, the left wing of the Democratic Party was the ADA (Americans for Democratic Action) Is the current organization the remnants of the Bernie Sanders people? Are they doing much useful? (In Arkansas, they held an event where they helped people repair broken taillights so as to avoid getting randomly stopped by police. I guess that's fine...but what about working to elect some Democrats? Their facebook page shows no actual political activity.)

Looking at their strategy page, they see 2016 as a year of rising rather than one of defeat. I guess in some ways, by embracing left-wing populism, they share certain characteristics with Trumpism.

Anyway, I skimmed their "strategy" document on their website, and it doesn't really seem like much of a strategy. Kinda a feel at best they'll suck energy and resources from left wing entities that might actually be effective.

I mean, nothing about getting people registered to vote, little about union organizing, no knowledge of already existing political structures in the various communities where they should be forming coalitions, no lobbying, little that could actually translate effectively into actual political change. In some sense, they seem even more politically clueless than animal rights organizations. (Who in fact have some successes they can point to even in places like Arkansas.)
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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby Houshphandzadeh » Thu Dec 28, 2017 13:15:39

I think you must be looking at the wrong page

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby pacino » Thu Dec 28, 2017 13:32:39

They're pretty clear about what their aims are. They want Democratic socialism to be the norm. They are very pro-union and pro-organizing. And different chapters do different work, like any organization.

Some people in it are more willing to work within the Democratic party than others. It's simply another movement and probably far more productive than if far left-leaning people were to seek alignment with Greens.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Dec 28, 2017 14:21:48

pacino wrote:They're pretty clear about what their aims are. They want Democratic socialism to be the norm.


By democratic socialism do they mean something like Scandinavian style social democracy, or something like government (i.e. social) ownership of most businesses? I don't mean to be pedantic, but there's a pretty wide gulf there.

Are they embarrassed by their one time embrace of Hugo Chavez?

But I guess if you don't actually run candidates in Democratic primaries, it's a lot easier to stand by the claim the Democrats rigged it so that Democrats would get the nomination.

Again, my main complaint is I see a lot of energy and time wasted with this approach. If you aren't making the move into either all out revolution or participating through lobbying and elections, if all you're doing is "organizing" and writing blogs that go on and on about how the Democratic party really is neo liberal and that's bad (remember back in the early part of this century the bad thing was called neo-conservative? I guess the key is not to be neo anything. Paleo it is!) then it really is pretty much pointless. I am still disappointed with how all the energy and passion of the occupy wall street movement dissipated into thin air.

I guess this is where politics by twitter takes us.
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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby Houshphandzadeh » Thu Dec 28, 2017 14:31:33

they had a bunch of members take office in the last election cycle

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby pacino » Thu Dec 28, 2017 14:39:45

I've been on record here being hesitant to embrace the movement but it seems to me that the energy and work being done has mostly been positive. there's a few outliers but the overall work is pushing unionization in the South, getting elected, and forcing politics to include the left perspective. There are different strains of thought within the group, as with any group, and some learn much more Marxist in nature, but PA had two candidates (John Fetterman and Aryanna Beringer) from the Democratic primary race for Lieutenant Governor try to get Pittsburgh's DSAs endorsement. Larry Krasner is going to be Philly's DA!

There's no astroturf money flowing into this; it's all people power. It's not an organization I'll be a part of but I respect those who are and don't think most of them are acting in any kind of bad faith to ruin Democratic politics. Yes, they rail on neoliberalism, and I think it tends to be misapplied, but that's a minor quibble. Them and other leftist groups, immigrant justice groups, progressive unions, etc are creating a new block on the left, especially in Pennsylvania politics (Pittsburgh, Philly and the Lehigh Valley area are seeing a huge shift). if you don't see that, I don't know what you tell you.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby pacino » Thu Dec 28, 2017 14:43:32

The Sarge wrote:Moore filed a lawsuit to block Alabama from certifying Jones' election. He claims voter fraud.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/us/p ... ction.html

already dismissed! they didn't file in the correct court lol
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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby curveball » Thu Dec 28, 2017 14:51:41

What's puzzling me is what happened to the reversal of Roe vs Wade? If they really wanted, couldn't the Repub's ban abortions for 10 years the way they did the tax bill? If so, the hypocrites.

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Dec 28, 2017 16:12:49

No?

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby Doll Is Mine » Thu Dec 28, 2017 16:26:44

Those Socialists are quietly turning the South blue and nobody's paying attention.

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Thu Dec 28, 2017 16:27:39

curveball wrote:What's puzzling me is what happened to the reversal of Roe vs Wade? If they really wanted, couldn't the Repub's ban abortions for 10 years the way they did the tax bill? If so, the hypocrites.

They need to stack the Court with social conservatives or pass a constitutional amendment. The latter ain't happening, so their only hope is a bunch of Gorsuches.

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Dec 28, 2017 16:47:24

Other than trump, the supreme cojrt overturning roe v. Wade would be the worst thing that could happen to the Republicans. You'd have states actually passing laws, but they couldn't stop with the widely accepted rape, incest, health of the mother, serious fetal abnormality exceptions but go all the way. There would be insane primary fights trying to find the extreme right on reproductive rights. Then, you'd probably see some states outlawing in vitro and maybe even common methods of birth control. It would bean amazing shit show of misogyny.
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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby Bucky » Thu Dec 28, 2017 16:51:59

plus if they WERE successful just MOAR DEMOCRATS

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby slugsrbad » Thu Dec 28, 2017 16:53:04

Doll Is Mine wrote:Those Socialists are quietly turning the South blue and nobody's paying attention.


A DSA advisor in Alabama wrote a blog/think piece on why she wouldn't vote for Doug Jones for Senate.
Quick Google shows that GoGo is wrong with regards to the Kiwi and the Banana.

Doll Is Mine wrote:This Ellen DeGeneres look alike on ESPN is annoying. Who the hell is he?

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Re: Hypocrisy is dead. Seize the politics

Postby JFLNYC » Thu Dec 28, 2017 16:56:08

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:
curveball wrote:What's puzzling me is what happened to the reversal of Roe vs Wade? If they really wanted, couldn't the Repub's ban abortions for 10 years the way they did the tax bill? If so, the hypocrites.

They need to stack the Court with social conservatives or pass a constitutional amendment. The latter ain't happening, so their only hope is a bunch of Gorsuches.


I got an email today from Robert Reich at Common Cause informing me that the Republicans are only 6 states short in their attempt to force a Constitutional Convention. The effort is apparently being funded by the Kochs.
Jamie

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