wwry wrote:there are definitely secret trump voters on this board though that don't participate in this thread.

I am not a Trump supporter but I do typically vote Republican for fiscal policy reasons. Voted Hillary this time around. For context, I am a 27 year old white guy.

A few misc. takes with that in mind:

1) The (faux) outrage over every decision made is ridiculous. A startling amount of those reacting to every decision like it's final and catastrophic seem to forget the checks and balances in place to prevent the very type of disaster we're being told is occurring. Now, if you want to argue that the people Trump has put in some of those checks and balances positions are also capable of creating disasters, I won't argue it, but Trump needs congress, etc. to get a lot of this stuff (healthcare, budget, tax reform) done.

TL;DR - not every decision made is the fucking end of the world. can we stop acting like it? is it okay for me to say "meh, don't really care too much" about the Paris accord decision? To points made before in this thread, there is a ton of hypocrisy surrounding that outrage specifically due to individual decisions made across the country every day that harm the climate.

2) While he says and does dumb shit seemingly every day, Trump has touched on some things that need to be improved, mainly in defense, infrastructure, and the economy. Not saying I necessarily agree with how he's approaching any/all of them, but let's not act like they don't need improvement, especially the first two.

3) Obama was in office for eight years. The millennial generation "came of age" during that time, having been between 4 (!) and 25 years old when he took office. I wonder sometimes how much of the outrage/resistance is related to simply not knowing what a non-Obama presidency is like, both in the way of Obama simply being much more likeable than Trump and in terms of policy decisions and GOP social views. Our generation has only really known Obama, a cool, eloquent, classy, fun, seemingly not corrupt guy, as President. To go from him to ANYONE would have been difficult for us to accept, let alone the antithesis of most of those qualities.

4) Re: point 3 - Combine that with the millennial generation spending some of those years at typically liberal-driven college campuses then (statistically) moved to typically liberal urban centers and I can see why some of the outrage is so amplified. A lot of us haven't been exposed to anything else.


That's it. Just had to vent a little.

I voted for Bernie even after the fact. I can not stand Hillary or Trump. Bernie would have won and been our President in a landslide.

i think it is different due to the entire cabinet being filled with the B team or worse, and the federal government essentially not functioning at all right now. there is an entire set of knowledgeable, smart republicans that refuse or were essentially banned from working with this administration. it's why so many positions are still unfilled.

i seriously fear about what would happen if a hurricane hits multiple states. it's hurricane season and there is no leadership in place on the federal level to allocate funds or provide support to the states. hurrican katrina can repeat itself.

a 30 year campaign to corrupt one of the two major parties has been completed. someone asked earlier about how many republicans are 'faking it', and I really think it's immaterial since the result would/is the same, but there are a TON of genuine articles now in Congress that disregard science, facts, and previously settled ideas and topics. they've been ingesting propaganda for their entire adult lives, and it's come to full bloom with President Guy At The Bar.

PSUsarge wrote:

wwry wrote:there are definitely secret trump voters on this board though that don't participate in this thread.

2) While he says and does dumb shit seemingly every day, Trump has touched on some things that need to be improved, mainly in defense, infrastructure, and the economy. Not saying I necessarily agree with how he's approaching any/all of them, but let's not act like they don't need improvement, especially the first two.

He has not done anything in defense except maybe blow up innocent people at an accelerating pace. There is no infrastructure bill. The Trump budget guts just about everything. And what has he done for the 'economy' exactly?

pacino wrote:i think it is different due to the entire cabinet being filled with the B team or worse, and the federal government essentially not functioning at all right now. there is an entire set of knowledgeable, smart republicans that refuse or were essentially banned from working with this administration. it's why so many positions are still unfilled.

i seriously fear about what would happen if a hurricane hits multiple states. it's hurricane season and there is no leadership in place on the federal level to allocate funds or provide support to the states. hurrican katrina can repeat itself.

a 30 year campaign to corrupt one of the two major parties has been completed. someone asked earlier about how many republicans are 'faking it', and I really think it's immaterial since the result would/is the same, but there are a TON of genuine articles now in Congress that disregard science, facts, and previously settled ideas and topics. they've been ingesting propaganda for their entire adult lives, and it's come to full bloom with President Guy At The Bar.

I agree with your first two paragraphs.

Re: the third paragraph, the same argument could easily be made about a 30 year Clinton campaign to corrupt the Dem party. I genuinely believe that a number of those in my generation simply assumed "oh, Hillary, yeah she's qualified, husband was president, lost the primary the last time around so she's next in line" and that a guy like Trump could never become President.

Both parties are in a horrible place right now.

PSUsarge wrote:

pacino wrote:i think it is different due to the entire cabinet being filled with the B team or worse, and the federal government essentially not functioning at all right now. there is an entire set of knowledgeable, smart republicans that refuse or were essentially banned from working with this administration. it's why so many positions are still unfilled.

i seriously fear about what would happen if a hurricane hits multiple states. it's hurricane season and there is no leadership in place on the federal level to allocate funds or provide support to the states. hurrican katrina can repeat itself.

a 30 year campaign to corrupt one of the two major parties has been completed. someone asked earlier about how many republicans are 'faking it', and I really think it's immaterial since the result would/is the same, but there are a TON of genuine articles now in Congress that disregard science, facts, and previously settled ideas and topics. they've been ingesting propaganda for their entire adult lives, and it's come to full bloom with President Guy At The Bar.

I agree with your first two paragraphs.

Re: the third paragraph, the same argument could easily be made about a 30 year Clinton campaign to corrupt the Dem party. I genuinely believe that a number of those in my generation simply assumed "oh, Hillary, yeah she's qualified, husband was president, lost the primary the last time around so she's next in line" and that a guy like Trump could never become President.

Both parties are in a horrible place right now.

i think those two things are very different, but we'll agree to disagree on that one.

really good discussion of the UK election and its polling. Basically, we just don't know if the tightening polls are real because the Tories outran their polling last time around, and focus on the average:

To sum things up, I’d give the same advice that I pretty much always do on the eve of an election. Focus on the polling average — Conservatives ahead by 7 points — rather than only the polls you like. But assume there’s a wide range of outcomes and that the errors are equally likely to come in either direction. Given the poor historical accuracy of U.K. polls, in fact, the true margin of error7 on the Labour-Conservative margin is plus or minus 10 points. That would imply that anything from a 17-point Conservative win to a 3-point Labour win is possible. And even an average polling error would make the difference between May expanding her majority and losing it.

JUburton wrote:

PSUsarge wrote:

wwry wrote:there are definitely secret trump voters on this board though that don't participate in this thread.

2) While he says and does dumb #$!&@ seemingly every day, Trump has touched on some things that need to be improved, mainly in defense, infrastructure, and the economy. Not saying I necessarily agree with how he's approaching any/all of them, but let's not act like they don't need improvement, especially the first two.

He has not done anything in defense except maybe blow up innocent people at an accelerating pace. There is no infrastructure bill. The Trump budget guts just about everything. And what has he done for the 'economy' exactly?

I hear you and don't disagree, but let's not forget he's been President for what, 140 days or something? That's 10% of his presidency.

Re: the budget "gutting just about everything" - kind of back to my point re: 8 years of a Dem presidency - it's been a LONG time since we have seen a Republican in office. Doesn't that typically come with a reduction in government spending?

AGAIN, a disclaimer: i did not vote for him and don't really support a lot of what he's done / wants to do, but trying to bring some sense of a different perspective.

Doesn't that typically come with a reduction in government spending?

not so much, just changes in what we spend it on. we do get tax cuts, however.

PSUsarge wrote:

JUburton wrote:

PSUsarge wrote:

wwry wrote:there are definitely secret trump voters on this board though that don't participate in this thread.

2) While he says and does dumb #$!&@ seemingly every day, Trump has touched on some things that need to be improved, mainly in defense, infrastructure, and the economy. Not saying I necessarily agree with how he's approaching any/all of them, but let's not act like they don't need improvement, especially the first two.

He has not done anything in defense except maybe blow up innocent people at an accelerating pace. There is no infrastructure bill. The Trump budget guts just about everything. And what has he done for the 'economy' exactly?

I hear you and don't disagree, but let's not forget he's been President for what, 140 days or something? That's 10% of his presidency.

Re: the budget "gutting just about everything" - kind of back to my point re: 8 years of a Dem presidency - it's been a LONG time since we have seen a Republican in office. Doesn't that typically come with a reduction in government spending?

AGAIN, a disclaimer: i did not vote for him and don't really support a lot of what he's done / wants to do, but trying to bring some sense of a different perspective.

Not really, it comes with an increase in defense and a decrease in everything else. And a decrease in taxes, mostly for the ultra rich. And I think that's worth fighting whether it comes from Trump or not.

I think I'd prefer get to the bottom of this whole ARE HE AND/OR MEMBERS OF HIS INNER-CIRCLE INTENTIONAL AND/OR UNWITTING FUCKING RUSSIAN SPIES thing before we let any of them advance any sort agenda.

We're far beyond devil's advocacy here

pacino wrote:

Doesn't that typically come with a reduction in government spending?

not so much, just changes in what we spend it on. we do get tax cuts, however.

Fair. But then the comment was the budget guts everything, which isn't true. It guts some things to cover others (tax cuts, possible defense/infrastructure spending, etc.)

Four and a half months into Trump's presidency, it's easy for political observers to become numb to every controversy and crisis coming from the White House. But this bears emphasizing: This is a president who, day after day, is destroying his credibility.

Thank you

Saudi Arabia is using its regional power to try to isolate Qatar:

The already sour relations between Qatar and Saudi Arabia were strained in late May when the Saudis accused Qatar’s emir, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al-Thani, of calling for improved ties with Iran, the regional rival of the Saudi kingdom, and criticizing some gulf Arab states.

The Qataris insisted that the comments were the work of hackers who broke into the website of the Qatar state news agency and called for an investigation. But the Saudis rejected that explanation.

There have long been fissures between Qatar and other Sunni Arab nations. Qatar, for example, provided financial support to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, which led the former government in Egypt and opposed the Egyptian military’s takeover as an illegal “coup.” Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E., which consider the Muslim Brotherhood a threat to stability to the region, supported the Egyptian military’s takeover.

Mr. Tillerson and Mr. Mattis, who appeared in their first joint news conference, in Sydney, after talks with their Australian counterparts, insisted that the rupture in relations among the Arab states would not undermine the fight against the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL.

the anti-ISIS air force is situated in Qatar. this is going well!

But that raises a thorny question: How can the American-led air campaign include warplanes from Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and the U.A.E. if these governments will no longer allow their military representatives to be based or even visit the American-led air war command?

thephan wrote:

Four and a half months into Trump's presidency, it's easy for political observers to become numb to every controversy and crisis coming from the White House. But this bears emphasizing: This is a president who, day after day, is destroying his credibility.

Thank you

I agree with this 1000% - just trying to address the first part of it in a way because I think we are going down a "boy who cried wolf" path by freaking the fuck out over EVERYTHING.

ignoring our President to try to accomplish diplomacy:

Julie Bishop, Australia’s foreign minister, said that Australian officials largely looked beyond President Trump’s tweets, in which he sometimes criticizes close American allies in ways that complicate international diplomatic efforts.

“In relation to Twitter, I understand that it has a maximum of 140 characters,” Ms. Bishop said. “So we deal with the president and his cabinet and the U.S. administration on what they do, what they achieve, what their strategies are and how we can work together in a close and deep cooperation.”

Will this week be the worst week for the administration? That seems to be a question asked every Monday and reflected on over coffee every Saturday. Sunday's are for the professional pundits to debate that topic.

@realDonaldTrump
Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his "no reason to be alarmed" statement. MSM is working hard to sell it!

please stop.

Slowhand wrote:

@realDonaldTrump
Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his "no reason to be alarmed" statement. MSM is working hard to sell it!

please stop.

When you message is alarmist fear, and there is someone behaving as a rational leader based on facts, you need to attack. Beside, the Mayor of London is a foe of the highest order to Trump.

Can't wait till the NSA and FBI shit talking starts tomorrow morning!