jerseyhoya wrote:

CalvinBall wrote:Yeah, but how can Pence be legitimate? He was chosen by a criminal. Just doesn't seem fair or just.

He's the duly elected vice president of the United States. What would be more fair or just than that?

dumping him because he's found complicit in drumpfco's coverup would be fair and just. I'd like to think he's just a stump but I have a feeling he tried to do something clever, and is in over his wooden head.

feels like their are an inordinate number of kibitzers on the drumpf situation who are frantically trying to muddy distinctions between "proof" and "evidence'

CalvinBall wrote:Yeah, but how can Pence be legitimate? He was chosen by a criminal. Just doesn't seem fair or just.

Plus he knew about Flynn and did nothing and a few other things he's known about in advance and did nothing. I agree with JH that he was elected and he may end up staying on, but his hands are definitely dirty. Maybe not illegal dirty, but certainly complicit and much more aware than they are letting on dirty. I think he has to go, but probably won't.

jerseyhoya wrote:

CalvinBall wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:Penceworld, which has been remarkably loyal and quiet, seems to have sprung a leak.

Say trump is forced to resign, doesn't pence have to go to?

Seems awful that if Trump was complicit in election meddling, that invalidates pence as well. Is there a law on this?

No? Would imagine Trump only goes if he's committed a crime. Doubt Pence has done anything illegal. I'd rather Ryan was president than Pence, but don't really understand this Pence will go and Ryan will go and we'll be down to Hatch thing. If Trump has done something illegal and he gets impeached for it, I doubt Pence was sitting shotgun for it.

Only way trump goes anywhere is if the economy tanks. If it does so now or in the next year, he might get impeached, if this Russia thing and its tentacles have legs. If it does so in 2019 or later, it'll happen in the general.

Tough thing to root for.

mozartpc27 wrote:Only way trump goes anywhere is if the economy tanks. If it does so now or in the next year, he might get impeached, if this Russia thing and its tentacles have legs. If it does so in 2019 or later, it'll happen in the general.

So you don't believe it will have to with what Mueller finds? Because there are all sorts of ways drumpf will discover to continue to betray his comprehensive unfitness for the job. The economy has been as fine as it is (essentially despite him) and he's still experiencing significant declines in favorable public opinion

I'd *shudders* probably rather have ryan than pence too but either would be terrible.

Clickhole's rebrand has been so good.

drsmooth wrote:feels like their are an inordinate number of kibitzers on the drumpf situation who are frantically trying to muddy distinctions between "proof" and "evidence'

My new favorite elected official grabbing camera time is Sean Duffy. Aside from a great name, I've run into him twice getting his 15 minutes about "proof" and "evidence". If he would slow down a minute, because he must drink like 12 cups of coffee, he might have a point, however that point is really the drop the pace of the speculation cycle to match the investigation. I think that is what he is insinuating, but his is also spinning it a bit to smell like 'no there, there' or 'where's the beef'.

JUburton wrote:Clickhole's rebrand has been so good.

I'm dying

drsmooth wrote:

mozartpc27 wrote:Only way trump goes anywhere is if the economy tanks. If it does so now or in the next year, he might get impeached, if this Russia thing and its tentacles have legs. If it does so in 2019 or later, it'll happen in the general.

So you don't believe it will have to with what Mueller finds? Because there are all sorts of ways drumpf will discover to continue to betray his comprehensive unfitness for the job. The economy has been as fine as it is (essentially despite him) and he's still experiencing significant declines in favorable public opinion

I mean, politically, if a republican led congress goes after a guy who is, to a significant portion of the Republican base, a demigod, it'll be a total disaster for them for at least two cycles (18, 20). I don't see them doing that unless the question becomes academic because his re-election bid is ruined anyway because of the only thing that ever really gets a sitting president anyway: the economy.

On primary day that just past, I worked my local polling station, and met a woman who was a Trump supporter. I have never seen anything like it, not even with Barack Obama who people usually think of as having a pretty big cult of personality around him in certain corners of the Democratic base (I more often run into the kind of liberal for whom no one and nothing is lef enough to suit them, but that's another story). If you had told me she had been sent to a reeducation camp I'd have believed you. The coup de gras of our time together was when she explained to me that when Trump made that comment about grabbing women by their genitals, that actually was a lament in support of women, concerning the sad way in which celebrity women have become such terrible role models in that they allow their bodies to be used by people in his position in such a fashion. (Prior to this pretzel-twisted eloquence in defense of Trump, in response to my initial reference to this incident, she asked me, I suppose rhetorically, "Do any men really respect women?", which I suppose should have told me something about her life)

No, I don't think the Republicans will attack Trump unless the situation becomes so untenable that an attack has no political downside, which basically means the economy needs to be in the shitter and we're losing blue collar jobs to the tune of 100,000 a month.

pacino wrote:

JUburton wrote:Clickhole's rebrand has been so good.

I'm dying

ROTFL

http://www.clickhole.com/article/godspe ... ert-f-6004

The Crimson Cyclone wrote:

pacino wrote:

JUburton wrote:Clickhole's rebrand has been so good.

I'm dying

ROTFL

http://www.clickhole.com/article/godspe ... ert-f-6004

I took a quiz and I'm a bad american that must be fed to the insatiable vomit hole that is old faithful like so many of america's adversaries

And to be honest, I am not sure why any democrat, from a purely strategic view, wants the man impeached. Best case scenario for the country policy wise IMHO is that this pattern continues every day until Trump leaves office, be that three and a half years from now or seven and a half years from now: as long as every day is a firestorm of "what now?" With him, they'll get little to nothing done. Hit the reset button with Pence, and who knows what nasty, backward, poverty-punishing, worker-hating legislation will pass for governance in this country.

I want more of the same for as long as he is in office, which I hope ends only when he is sent packing by a resounding and thorough rejection by this country's voters.

mozartpc27 wrote:And to be honest, I am not sure why any democrat, from a purely strategic view, wants the man impeached. Best case scenario for the country policy wise IMHO is that this pattern continues every day until Trump leaves office, be that three and a half years from now or seven and a half years from now: as long as every day is a firestorm of "what now?" With him, they'll get little to nothing done. Hit the reset button with Pence, and who knows what nasty, backward, poverty-punishing, worker-hating legislation will pass for governance in this country.

I want more of the same for as long as he is in office, which I hope ends only when he is sent packing by a resounding and thorough rejection by this country's voters.

Right. Not yet. Side line him, make him in effective, crush his agendas, then roll out his incompetence in a giant parade right before mid-terms.

mozartpc27 wrote:
On primary day that just past, I worked my local polling station, and met a woman who was a Trump supporter.

I understand you're sketching this woman as an example, but she feels more like an outlier. Few R congresspersons will be eagerly beseeching drumpf to come campaign in their districts next year, unless wages rise 15% with flat inflation.

mozartpc27 wrote:And to be honest, I am not sure why any democrat, from a purely strategic view, wants the man impeached.

There's the less chance of everybody dying aspect

mozartpc27 wrote:And to be honest, I am not sure why any democrat, from a purely strategic view, wants the man impeached. Best case scenario for the country policy wise IMHO is that this pattern continues every day until Trump leaves office, be that three and a half years from now or seven and a half years from now: as long as every day is a firestorm of "what now?" With him, they'll get little to nothing done. Hit the reset button with Pence, and who knows what nasty, backward, poverty-punishing, worker-hating legislation will pass for governance in this country.

I want more of the same for as long as he is in office, which I hope ends only when he is sent packing by a resounding and thorough rejection by this country's voters.

Donald Trump is a foreign policy disaster waiting to happen. An existential threat to democracy. At least Pence has a brain cell. The policies will be no worse under him than under Trump.

JUburton wrote:

mozartpc27 wrote:And to be honest, I am not sure why any democrat, from a purely strategic view, wants the man impeached. Best case scenario for the country policy wise IMHO is that this pattern continues every day until Trump leaves office, be that three and a half years from now or seven and a half years from now: as long as every day is a firestorm of "what now?" With him, they'll get little to nothing done. Hit the reset button with Pence, and who knows what nasty, backward, poverty-punishing, worker-hating legislation will pass for governance in this country.

I want more of the same for as long as he is in office, which I hope ends only when he is sent packing by a resounding and thorough rejection by this country's voters.

Donald Trump is a foreign policy disaster waiting to happen. An existential threat to democracy. At least Pence has a brain cell. The policies will be no worse under him than under Trump.

But the policies will be enacted, or at least stand a better chance of being enacted, under a President Pence, particularly if it happens fast.

mozartpc27 wrote:

JUburton wrote:

mozartpc27 wrote:And to be honest, I am not sure why any democrat, from a purely strategic view, wants the man impeached. Best case scenario for the country policy wise IMHO is that this pattern continues every day until Trump leaves office, be that three and a half years from now or seven and a half years from now: as long as every day is a firestorm of "what now?" With him, they'll get little to nothing done. Hit the reset button with Pence, and who knows what nasty, backward, poverty-punishing, worker-hating legislation will pass for governance in this country.

I want more of the same for as long as he is in office, which I hope ends only when he is sent packing by a resounding and thorough rejection by this country's voters.

Donald Trump is a foreign policy disaster waiting to happen. An existential threat to democracy. At least Pence has a brain cell. The policies will be no worse under him than under Trump.

But the policies will be enacted, or at least stand a better chance of being enacted, under a President Pence, particularly if it happens fast.

Let me put it this way: on the R side, the quickest, cleanest solution to the Trump problem is so obvious that, if his children love him, they should recommend to him that he not leave the White House or Mar a Lago under any circumstances, and that he should employ a food taster starting now, because a bad motha like Ryan has already entertained the idea in his idle daydreams.

I'd rather have a standard democrat vs. republican fight against a mostly competent administration than one against a slower, dysfunctional one with a side for potential nuclear war or complete erosion in foreign relations around the world. Trump already burned what seems to be the most important source of ISIS terrorism information. It hasn't been 4 months. And that's just one of his many foreign blunders.