Hail to the Thief: A Politics Thread

Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby td11 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:05:23

even if the NYT story was horseshit, what about this direct quote?

pacino wrote:
“I have learned a great deal about the important work being done every day by the outstanding men and women of the DOE,” Perry said in his opening statement at his Senate confirmation hearing this morning. “My past statements made over five years ago about abolishing the Department of Energy do not reflect my current thinking. In fact, after being briefed on so many of the vital functions of the Department of Energy, I regret recommending its elimination.”


seems like he's admitting it
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby CalvinBall » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:08:33

and yet trump wants to gut it!

trump is really good at setting up people that he needs on his side for utter failure.

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:08:48

Werthless wrote:
pacino wrote:
Werthless wrote:
pacino wrote:Ulysses S Grant, traitor to the nation, created the first couple and then the tyrannical reign of Teddy Roosevelt guaranteed we'd be forced to visit these national areas of interest for our own amusement. The freedom-loving Bundys know what's up.

Hey man, sometimes it's fun to turn off the sarcasm font!

states won't have the funds to maintain some of 'em properly and some of them go over multiple states. it's nice to have cool things, too. if they were created at the federal level, i think they should remain in federal control.

/serious

So there are richer states that are forced to maintain the land of poorer states, because that's the way it's always been? I dunno man. This is one of those privatization/nationalization topics where I've never been satisfied with an argument to nationalize a bunch of federal land and then tax people to pay to maintain it. We take it for granted now, of course, but if there were no federal lands, I don't think we would be advocating that the US take $XX billion dollars and buy a bunch of land to hold. We'd probably say that there are better things, like universal healthcare, to spend money on. We would be cutting these land purchases to pay for actual services that benefit people.

I mean, imagine if Putin decided he wanted to buy a bunch of land of land in Russia. Would we say, "Great, he's nationalizing the preservation of the earth," or "Hey, what an autocrat, buying a bunch of land as a monument to himself. I wonder which of his friends is a new billionaire after these purchases."

i think this just underlines the importance of having two national parties, one that perhaps advocates for less taxation and national control but isn't, you know, currently run by a crazy madman, so you can advocate your position from that and i can advocate mine. i think we can have national parks and land AND universal healthcare. i like stuff like the arts, parks, etc being funded by the government, even the federal government. i think it adds to our standard of living.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:10:19

If they don't like being part of the USA and the rights and responsibilities that come with it, let them secede.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby Youseff » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:12:11

the options aren't universal healthcare or preserving public wildlife. what a wildly dishonest analogy. I, like many people, are perfectly fine with a federal government (staffed by people who think the government can actually serve the people) preserving parks. not everything that defines America has to be a revenue stream, despite what the GOP would love for you to believe.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby CalvinBall » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:13:57

i just dont get why things that are small percentages of the budget are the ones that always get attacked (fed land, us interior) when there are things that cost 30 times as more. maybe we should focus on cutting costs there first.

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby CalvinBall » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:17:13

clear this shit a build a water park.

Image

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby Youseff » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:18:26

td11 wrote:even if the NYT story was horseshit, what about this direct quote?

pacino wrote:
“I have learned a great deal about the important work being done every day by the outstanding men and women of the DOE,” Perry said in his opening statement at his Senate confirmation hearing this morning. “My past statements made over five years ago about abolishing the Department of Energy do not reflect my current thinking. In fact, after being briefed on so many of the vital functions of the Department of Energy, I regret recommending its elimination.”


seems like he's admitting it


this is also a quote. NY Times is not in the habit of fake quotes.

“If you asked him on that first day he said yes, he would have said, ‘I want to be an advocate for energy,’” McKenna said.

“If you asked him now, he’d say, ‘I’m serious about the challenges facing the nuclear complex.’ It’s been a learning curve.”


take the two actual quotes at face value, spin it however you want, but it's pretty damning. McKenna may be trying to do damage control seems a likely conclusion.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:18:27

cutting:
The Corporation for Public Broadcasting would be privatized, while the National Endowment for the Arts and National Endowment for the Humanities would be eliminated entirely.

Overall, the blueprint being used by Trump’s team would reduce federal spending by $10.5 trillion over 10 years.

The proposed cuts hew closely to a blueprint published last year by the conservative Heritage Foundation, a think tank that has helped staff the Trump transition.

The Heritage blueprint used as a basis for Trump’s proposed cuts calls for eliminating several programs that conservatives label corporate welfare programs: the Minority Business Development Agency, the Economic Development Administration, the International Trade Administration and the Manufacturing Extension Partnership. The total savings from cutting these four programs would amount to nearly $900 million in 2017.

At the Department of Justice, the blueprint calls for eliminating the Office of Community Oriented Policing Services, Violence Against Women Grants and the Legal Services Corporation and for reducing funding for its Civil Rights and its Environment and Natural Resources divisions.

At the Department of Energy, it would roll back funding for nuclear physics and advanced scientific computing research to 2008 levels, eliminate the Office of Electricity, eliminate the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy and scrap the Office of Fossil Energy, which focuses on technologies to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

Under the State Department’s jurisdiction, funding for the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, the Paris Climate Change Agreement and the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change are candidates for elimination.

Conservatives allied with fiscal hawks such as Pence, Paul and the Heritage Foundation say the time is long past due to get serious about cutting the federal deficit.

if you want to know why Republicans will never impeach Donald trump it's because they get to do this stuff
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby td11 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:18:29

CalvinBall wrote:clear this shit a build a water park.

Image


i'll say it and i'm not ashamed-- love 2 pay taxes to preserve things like this
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:25:30

So let me get this straight. A group of people who weren't even born when the USA acquired the land now want the USA to give them the land because they happen to have been born in the state where the land is situated? It gives new meaning to "this land is your land, this land is my land." But, if we're going to be giving out free cookies and milk based on the state in which we were born, I call dibs on Independence Hall and Valley Forge. kthxbai.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:25:55

Werthless wrote:I don't think we would be advocating that the US take $XX billion dollars and buy a bunch of land to hold.


You may have to roll back a couple of those X's. The Land and Water Conservation Fund's 2016 budget request was $900 million. Pretty sure land is also sold off, perhaps lowering the net.


That sum approaches rounding error territory in terms of, say, adequately subsidizing health treatment.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:26:09

business asshole Kevin O'Leary is running for Tory leadership in Canada.

amazing
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:29:19

This Pete Buttigieg guy should be the DNC Chair, not Ellison or Perez. what a misuse of resources.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby Youseff » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:32:05

& how would Putin's friend become billionaires & get rich from buying public land where subsequently no industries would exist?
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:34:26

pacino wrote:Overall, the blueprint being used by Trump’s team would reduce federal spending by $10.5 trillion over 10 years.


is this figure confirmed by CBO, or is The Hill pulling it out of its own or Heritage's gaping ass?
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:39:22

drsmooth wrote:
pacino wrote:Overall, the blueprint being used by Trump’s team would reduce federal spending by $10.5 trillion over 10 years.


is this figure confirmed by CBO, or is The Hill pulling it out of its own or Heritage's gaping ass?

Heritage's

i don't believe the CBO has scored anything because nothing has been officially proposed. it's pretty ingenius, actually. i'm sure they scored the 2015 one.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby slugsrbad » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:40:33

Youseff wrote:& how would Putin's friend become billionaires & get rich from buying public land where subsequently no industries would exist?


I assume the hypothetical would be that his friends would buy, or already own the land, and then the Russian government would pay outrageous sums to buy it for parks and preservation.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby Youseff » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:42:57

slugsrbad wrote:
Youseff wrote:& how would Putin's friend become billionaires & get rich from buying public land where subsequently no industries would exist?


I assume the hypothetical would be that his friends would buy, or already own the land, and then the Russian government would pay outrageous sums to buy it for parks and preservation.


oh, so werthless was proposing a hypothetical that has nothing to do with our public parks situation. great.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:48:52

CalvinBall wrote:i just dont get why things that are small percentages of the budget are the ones that always get attacked (fed land, us interior) when there are things that cost 30 times as more. maybe we should focus on cutting costs there first.


It's pretty easy to understand. The kleptocrats have already confiscated the profits from the big items (like defense). Now they want the smaller items (like National Parks) and if there's no profit to be gained by them for a smaller item (like any social welfare or arts spending) they want there to be no spending at all on those items. They simply cannot abide any government spending which doesn't end up in their hands or which helps the "others."
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