Hail to the Thief: A Politics Thread

Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby td11 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 14:36:10

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... eral-lease

In the midst of highly publicized steps to dismantle insurance coverage for 32 million people and defund women’s healthcare facilities, Republican lawmakers have quietly laid the foundation to give away Americans’ birthright: 640m acres of national land. In a single line of changes to the rules for the House of Representatives, Republicans have overwritten the value of federal lands, easing the path to disposing of federal property even if doing so loses money for the government and provides no demonstrable compensation to American citizens.


the GOP is a horrible political party that doesn't care about america
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby td11 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 14:37:31

republicans purposely hamstring and sabotage gov't when they're in power, then once govt is functioning at a limp say "see this shit is so inefficient and wasteful!!!"
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby traderdave » Thu Jan 19, 2017 14:42:32

td11 wrote:republicans purposely hamstring and sabotage gov't when they're in power, then once govt is functioning at a limp say "see this #$!&@ is so inefficient and wasteful!!!"


To me, the most remarkable thing about it is that Rs have been using the play for years and Ds still cannot figure out a way to beat them. It is like back in the day when Andy Reid would call a screen for Westbrook every other play and defenses still could not stop it.

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby 06hawkalum » Thu Jan 19, 2017 14:48:55

traderdave wrote:
td11 wrote:republicans purposely hamstring and sabotage gov't when they're in power, then once govt is functioning at a limp say "see this #$!&@ is so inefficient and wasteful!!!"


To me, the most remarkable thing about it is that Rs have been using the play for years and Ds still cannot figure out a way to beat them. It is like back in the day when Andy Reid would call a screen for Westbrook every other play and defenses still could not stop it.


The GOP is better at messaging their platform to the American people.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby CalvinBall » Thu Jan 19, 2017 14:52:24

td11 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/19/bureau-land-management-federal-lease

In the midst of highly publicized steps to dismantle insurance coverage for 32 million people and defund women’s healthcare facilities, Republican lawmakers have quietly laid the foundation to give away Americans’ birthright: 640m acres of national land. In a single line of changes to the rules for the House of Representatives, Republicans have overwritten the value of federal lands, easing the path to disposing of federal property even if doing so loses money for the government and provides no demonstrable compensation to American citizens.


the GOP is a horrible political party that doesn't care about america



man. this one hurts. i mean they all do, but the land we protect as a country is so breathtaking and inspiring. it has been the foundation of so many great pieces of art and writing. please dont go away.

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Thu Jan 19, 2017 14:57:58

pacino wrote:is this normal?
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby Werthless » Thu Jan 19, 2017 15:15:22

td11 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/19/bureau-land-management-federal-lease

In the midst of highly publicized steps to dismantle insurance coverage for 32 million people and defund women’s healthcare facilities, Republican lawmakers have quietly laid the foundation to give away Americans’ birthright: 640m acres of national land. In a single line of changes to the rules for the House of Representatives, Republicans have overwritten the value of federal lands, easing the path to disposing of federal property even if doing so loses money for the government and provides no demonstrable compensation to American citizens.


the GOP is a horrible political party that doesn't care about america

Why does the federal government run a bunch of parks again? I like parks, but I'm not sure why the federal government owns it instead of just regulates its use.

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Jan 19, 2017 15:19:58

Image

It's not parks, it's the fact that the federal government owns huge chunks of many western states, and the states don't like that.

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Thu Jan 19, 2017 15:22:57

Ulysses S Grant, traitor to the nation, created the first couple and then the tyrannical reign of Teddy Roosevelt guaranteed we'd be forced to visit these national areas of interest for our own amusement. The freedom-loving Bundys know what's up.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby Werthless » Thu Jan 19, 2017 15:29:05

pacino wrote:Ulysses S Grant, traitor to the nation, created the first couple and then the tyrannical reign of Teddy Roosevelt guaranteed we'd be forced to visit these national areas of interest for our own amusement. The freedom-loving Bundys know what's up.

Hey man, sometimes it's fun to turn off the sarcasm font!

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby slugsrbad » Thu Jan 19, 2017 15:34:29

Werthless wrote:
Why does the federal government run a bunch of parks again? I like parks, but I'm not sure why the federal government owns it instead of just regulates its use.


Wouldn't that put a cash strain on states such as Wyoming that have a lot of federally-owned land, but not the financial means to protect and maintain it? If the federal government transferred the land back with regulations on how it was used, it would not have much value to a private seller outside of maybe real estate/lodging for hunters/outdoorsy people.
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Thu Jan 19, 2017 15:34:53

jerseyhoya wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
td11 wrote:
@politicalmath 10h10 hours ago
If you think the longest serving TX gov doesn't know what the Dept of Energy does, you are so partisan you are intellectually non-functional


I don't know this politicalmath individual but imagining Rick Perry doesn't know something doesn't require partisanship - it merely requires checking the highlights of his recent political career.

The NY Times story was unsubstantiated, debunked garbage though.



so you believe Rick Perry actually knows what Dept of Energy does based on what
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Thu Jan 19, 2017 15:35:17

Werthless wrote:
pacino wrote:Ulysses S Grant, traitor to the nation, created the first couple and then the tyrannical reign of Teddy Roosevelt guaranteed we'd be forced to visit these national areas of interest for our own amusement. The freedom-loving Bundys know what's up.

Hey man, sometimes it's fun to turn off the sarcasm font!

states won't have the funds to maintain some of 'em properly and some of them go over multiple states. it's nice to have cool things, too. if they were created at the federal level, i think they should remain in federal control.

/serious
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Thu Jan 19, 2017 15:37:42

slugsrbad wrote:
Werthless wrote:
Why does the federal government run a bunch of parks again? I like parks, but I'm not sure why the federal government owns it instead of just regulates its use.


Wouldn't that put a cash strain on states such as Wyoming that have a lot of federally-owned land, but not the financial means to protect and maintain it? If the federal government transferred the land back with regulations on how it was used, it would not have much value to a private seller outside of maybe real estate/lodging for hunters/outdoorsy people.

maybe they'll decide to raise state taxes in order to properly maintain them and not sell them off to make a quick buck.

Image
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Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Thu Jan 19, 2017 15:39:10

Werthless wrote:Why does the federal government run a bunch of parks again? I like parks, but I'm not sure why the federal government owns it instead of just regulates its use.


because milton friedman is dead
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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Jan 19, 2017 15:48:29

drsmooth wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
td11 wrote:
@politicalmath 10h10 hours ago
If you think the longest serving TX gov doesn't know what the Dept of Energy does, you are so partisan you are intellectually non-functional


I don't know this politicalmath individual but imagining Rick Perry doesn't know something doesn't require partisanship - it merely requires checking the highlights of his recent political career.

The NY Times story was unsubstantiated, debunked garbage though.

so you believe Rick Perry actually knows what Dept of Energy does based on what

These seem like some pretty good reasons to think the story was nonsense and Perry was aware.

First, the article's lone source, Michael McKenna, was booted from the Trump transition team in November 2016. Perry was appointed to the role in December 2016.

Second, the quote attributed to McKenna is pure speculation. It's him theorizing about what the former governor may be thinking now compared to what he thought back in December when he was first offered the job. How the Times took that single quote and presented the headline and opening paragraphs as solid fact is anyone's guess.

Third, according McKenna, the quote isn't even accurate. He told the Daily Caller Wednesday evening that his already bland remarks were badly misinterpreted by the Times. He said the report "[doesn't] really reflect what I said," adding that Perry "of course" understood the job when he accepted it.

Fourth, Amarillo, Texas, serves as the primary location for the assembly and disassembly of the nation's nuclear weapons. Nearly two-thirds of the Department of Energy's budget goes to maintaining those stockpiles. As a reminder, Perry served as governor of Texas for 15 years. He is not unaware of those projects.

Fifth, Perry even stated in December when he accepted the job that he was looking forward to carrying out the duties of the office, including overseeing the maintenance of the national's nuclear arsenal.

"As the former governor of the nation's largest energy producing state, I know American energy is critical to our economy and our security," Perry said in a statement on Dec. 14

He added, "I look forward to engaging in a conversation about the development, stewardship and regulation of our energy resources, safeguarding our nuclear arsenal and promoting an American energy policy that creates jobs and puts America first."

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby CalvinBall » Thu Jan 19, 2017 15:52:06

jerseyhoya wrote:Image

It's not parks, it's the fact that the federal government owns huge chunks of many western states, and the states don't like that.


well they have different designations, sure. but it still should be protected. to me it is a question of morality and being a steward of this planet.

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Thu Jan 19, 2017 15:54:43

CalvinBall wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Image

It's not parks, it's the fact that the federal government owns huge chunks of many western states, and the states don't like that.


well they have different designations, sure. but it still should be protected. to me it is a question of morality and being a steward of this planet.

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby Werthless » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:01:19

pacino wrote:
Werthless wrote:
pacino wrote:Ulysses S Grant, traitor to the nation, created the first couple and then the tyrannical reign of Teddy Roosevelt guaranteed we'd be forced to visit these national areas of interest for our own amusement. The freedom-loving Bundys know what's up.

Hey man, sometimes it's fun to turn off the sarcasm font!

states won't have the funds to maintain some of 'em properly and some of them go over multiple states. it's nice to have cool things, too. if they were created at the federal level, i think they should remain in federal control.

/serious

So there are richer states that are forced to maintain the land of poorer states, because that's the way it's always been? I dunno man. This is one of those privatization/nationalization topics where I've never been satisfied with an argument to nationalize a bunch of federal land and then tax people to pay to maintain it. We take it for granted now, of course, but if there were no federal lands, I don't think we would be advocating that the US take $XX billion dollars and buy a bunch of land to hold. We'd probably say that there are better things, like universal healthcare, to spend money on. We would be cutting these land purchases to pay for actual services that benefit people.

I mean, imagine if Putin decided he wanted to buy a bunch of land of land in Russia. Would we say, "Great, he's nationalizing the preservation of the earth," or "Hey, what an autocrat, buying a bunch of land as a monument to himself. I wonder which of his friends is a new billionaire after these purchases."
Last edited by Werthless on Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:03:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Final 48: A Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Thu Jan 19, 2017 16:01:31

jerseyhoya wrote:These seem like some pretty good reasons to think the story was nonsense and Perry was aware.



Think. Think hard. Think hard about the abundant first-hand evidence the individual himself has made available to anyone paying attention. Weigh that evidence of his general competence. Weigh it not even carefully. And be honest. He's not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
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