jamiethekiller wrote:Camden Yards is a fucking dump and a terrible place to see a baseball game for the most part.

I'm kinda with you here, still like it better than Chase Field and Nationals Park though

closed off concourse is awful. the seats face the wrong fucking direction. the ushers are pure shit.

its cool for bringing the retro style back though(even though its facade only)

Houshphandzadeh wrote:classic rock radio is a special case outside of some equation like 'music should be retired after X years'

if you're still thrilled by Slow Ride or American Woman after hearing them one million times with each of those listens carrying an opportunity cost, I think it's fair to say you're doing it wrong

RIGHT

Both of those songs have ALWAYS sucked, though.

Here's the thing -- when I see older legendary rock bands - (Zep, Hendrix, Stones, Who, Kinks, even the Beatles who I detest ) in some old footage as part of a documentary - when I see people a few years my senior remembering that time - the newness and excitement of it all. Ok...

But the "music" business by the 70's and 80's and radio - had become a complete mega-corp situation. Some things crept in, no one could have predicted Hip-Hop as a main-stream success. There was some innovation. And lots of people can write a good song or be an energized band that gives a good show.

When I was in my late 20's in to 30-ish, I taught High-School Music and my music class was much closer to a music appreciation/sociology of music class. A lot of discussion. By 9th or 10th grade almost every student had staked out an established "brand" "classic rocker" "progressive" "emo" "punk" "new wave" "rasta" "hip-hop" -- There already was an established uniform - goths w fishnet stockings - punks with shaved heads - rastas with dreads and smoking blunts - hip-hop w jordans etc...

In many cases - and "classic rock" especially - these become codified and continually marketed to the next gen - as each new gen came of age. Instead of being of their time - and leaving that music to the og's - being the real people who the music resonated for/with - it was just something to adopt. It was laughable to me.

As good as Hendrix and Zep and Stones were - there's not a single track that hasn't been played 8 gabillion times over and over on station after station.

Many of these things have a shelf-life. And when you get in a nostalgic mood or if you hadn't heard it in a couple years - you might get excited for a minute to re-experience. But I can't. I need to not hear any of this stuff for years and mainly enjoy it in a rare documentary kind of situation.

As a person who studied music seriously for 14 years from age 15 to 29, I grew well beyond the very limited palette of commercial FM radio the WMMR and WYSP of the 70's --

In every era - pop continued. I much prefer to hear Michael Jackson in the context of the Jackson 5, when it was more R&B and funky and soulful, than the over-produced pop that he's mainly known for today.

Many many popular mega-bands had lead singers who's voices never did it for me - REM, U2, others --

There was some innovation in the 90's with grunge, there have been some great bands in the last 25 years - whether they drew on sounds from 60's or 70's or found their own mash. At least the ones that played smaller clubs felt connected to actual fans living lives in their time. They weren't true innovators but they were genuine, sincere and some times talented.

To see these almost 70 year old clowns put on a costume and jump around doing music for people aged 16-30 is laughable to me. If it's a vegas show for their og's I guess -

Most mainstream music sucks. Period. I don't care the genre. It's a system of stars and who gets distribution is very narrow.

The internet has created some freedom - but most people are very limited in their musical appreciation. It's called ignorance. You might like two buck chuck and pbr and coors and whatever - but that doesn't mean a Chateau Neuf du Pape or a craft beer isn't superior. You may think In n Out Burger is good - but I know that my boutique artisan pastured burger is 10X better in every way. I suffer ignorance of the masses begrudgingly.

Am I an elitist? YES. Yes, I am. When it comes to my cultural sophistication - I'm not backing down I'm not dumbing it down. I know what crap is and I know that half the music people tout at important and put in top 100 goat lists - is crap. And over rated. Popular doesn't mean "greatest". It means commodity effectively branded marketed and sold and re-packaged for next generation.

Philadelphia, and especially "white philly" that listens to WIP - are some of THE most limited in terms of musical awareness. It's a region particularly stuck in the 70's and 80's. Whenever I'm back for a visit, whether at a gym or some shop - I'm astonished with how much music I hear that was the same music I heard as it debuted when I was 13-19 living there.

Ask yourself where you even got exposed to music? How you learned what was even available? Ask yourself how much of your music knowledge and eventually your tastes were started as you figured out who your friends were going to be and where you placed yourself socially? What 'hood you live in and what was just assumed to be the choices?

You think you chose from all the options out there on an even playing field. Just picked that which moved your soul the most? I say bullsh**. It was pre-digested and packaged for you and you didn't even know what else was possible. You were being shaped in to a consumer brand and then marketed to. You don't know what you like, you were taught what to like.

Now EDM, another area where a lot of innovation occurred has gotten commercial too. Eventually, people want to be stars - The Armin Van Burens hang on as the Skrillexes and Afro Jacks and Cory Fairstens emerge.. to get paid...

10% of the mass produced music from 1967-2017 is worthy of existing at all. The rest should be burned.

NOW - do I care if people listen to me? No. Do I care if people are enjoying their sh** music and stuck in time? No, not really. If something brings you joy and pleasure - god bless. Have at it.

And I know, that some people are more open minded and evolve as a person and as part of that - expand their tastes in music. Can like many things and pick and choose - this music for a car ride, this for cleaning the house, this for a wedding - whatever - some people just use music as a platform with which to dance because they love to dance.

I don't like most hip hop or EDM either - I don't like most mass produced music and most music produced to get people to get up and move. Pick a direction. I live out in a small town with lots of yoginis. They love devotional music and kirtan and a lot of other dreck I can barely be around. They think some guy doing a bad Bob Dylan immitation on open mic night is 'cool' and current. They think some guy noodling on a guitar at some live faire like Carlos Santana is "cool" and relevant.

YAWN.

So I'm the outlier. I have a fkn MA in music composition and experimental music from an avant grade program - I'm not going to ever be in agreeance with most people about music topics.

Ok, I'm not really an elitist as much as an educator. And I don't usually use subjective terms like good n bad and crap and sux. Because things succeed and fail on their own terms. If something is a known genre with it's features, then the afficianados of that genre can decide if it was good or not.

One of the reasons I detest the BEATLES is that I never cared for ANY of their actual voices. I can say that at one time I liked the vocals of Robert Plant and Jim Hendrix and CSNY -- I never cared much for Jagger and Daltry let alone the Dead -- it's very subjective stuff. Obviously.

But in the same way many people who benefit from white male privilege don't even know how or why - many people just assume that classic rock was always there - is the 'real stuff' because radio sanctioned it - and somehow it's importance has been oversold over the decades.

Hip Hop became relevant because it replaced older forms of which jazz in the 1920's and 1930's had the same role- it was the music of the African American experience. In the inner cities and rural areas - it told the stories. It allowed people to get up and move and celebrate after toiling w sh** jobs. And in a way - punk and other kinds of bands that kept coming after the 60's tried to be the voice of working class white people toiling - and they expressed and moved differently.

Any band can write or produce one or two or three good songs. And many bands - of great fame can suck for far more years than they were great. Every so often I look up some old band - say Fleetwood Mac, and go "hmph I wonder what they've been doing all these years??" I go to YouTube check out some stuff they did live in the last 15 years and go "ugh..." what a waste. All the resources allotted to these folks that didn't go to some younger voice who had something important to say TODAY.

It's a messed up system that emerged - even Beethoven didn't hit it out the park on every piece with his name on it.

Unpopular I"m sure most of what I'm saying here. But there is a lot of music that can sit on Spotify or Pandora and let it be. Let's stop talking about it like it's important. If I never hear Stairway to Heaven again in my life I'm good. And it's a great song. I'll dig it in a documentary or a movie that uses it in a special way - or a period piece. Maybe a remix can freshen it for me. I love the remix art-form when done really well.

Who else do I hate? Prince and Bowie while we're at it. Over f'n rated. Don't care. FB had a massive sad when these dudes left the planet. I just kept quiet for fear of all my 20-30-something hotties unfriending me. Why should they dig those guys anyway - they were born in the late 80's or 90's starting listening to music in the 00's??

Marketing.

It's very rare I hear ANYTHING live and enjoy it. Regardless of venue or genre. Billy Joel? Journey? why t f are we even speaking these names aloud?

I have over 1000 vinyl and over 1000 CDs and 1000's of tracks saved on YouTube - and I can assure you that there is very little pop, classic rock, commercial hip hop or boring EDM, cheesy mellow jazz -- just as you won't find Coors in my fridge or Gallo wine, or Pringles or Snickers.

When I see "70's night" I cringe. I lived it man. It got much worse after the 60's buzz wore off. Early 70's are the goat Zep albums and CSNY and Stevie Wonder, and by the end it was Do The Hustle, Play That Crazy Music White Boy and Staying Alive -- thankful for original hip-hop and punk fomenting in '76 and emerging to mainstream by '80...

Uncle Milty wrote:You act like only the pre-disco BeeGees are worthy of our appreciation.

Well the only Doobie Bros worthy were before McDonald

Billy Joel is good

an inability to enjoy new music for 50 years isn't an indictment against everyone but you. tons of good music to be had, now as it's always been. Do you remember those days hanging out at the Village Green?

I think finding new music will always be something that makes me happy, and new meaning new to me.

I have a theory that the real Ptk died.

Slowhand wrote:Both of those songs have ALWAYS sucked, though.

get the fuck out of here with this weak shit

can't fully form a response to PtK because I'm so baffled by the assertion that he hates Prince and Bowie and evidently every form of western music created since The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady, but taking solace in the fact that if I did craft a response, he'd never read it anyway

Billy Joel is fine as an artist but he shouldn't have driven into that lady's house

Barry Jive wrote:can't fully form a response to PtK because I'm so baffled by the assertion that he hates Prince and Bowie and evidently every form of western music created since The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady, but taking solace in the fact that if I did craft a response, he'd never read it anyway

Billy Joel is fine as an artist but he shouldn't have driven into that lady's house

Only proves that he's insane

Barry Jive wrote:

Slowhand wrote:Both of those songs have ALWAYS sucked, though.

get the fuck out of here with this weak shit

Don't be abusive.

Enjoyed reading ptks post.

What current rock music go you respect?

I think country music, at least good country music, is close to dead. Nashville has that stuff on lockdown and it's really hard to break into that scene without nashville being behind you. As the old timers die off, we're mostly stuck with the garth brooks of the music world.

But there are always new kinds of music popping up and I love just going link to link on youtube finding new stuff or old stuff that was buried until the internet opened things up. New music is not dead.

Monkeyboy wrote:I think country music, at least good country music, is close to dead. Nashville has that stuff on lockdown and it's really hard to break into that scene without nashville being behind you. As the old timers die off, we're mostly stuck with the garth brooks of the music world.

But there are always new kinds of music popping up and I love just going link to link on youtube finding new stuff or old stuff that was buried until the internet opened things up. New music is not dead.

Try (though you've likely heard of some/all) Sturgill Simpson, Jason Isbell (less so the last album), Drive-by Truckers, Tyler Childers, Chris Stapleton, Kacey Musgraves.

A little poppier, Maren Morris,

phatj wrote:

Barry Jive wrote:can't fully form a response to PtK because I'm so baffled by the assertion that he hates Prince and Bowie and evidently every form of western music created since The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady, but taking solace in the fact that if I did craft a response, he'd never read it anyway

Billy Joel is fine as an artist but he shouldn't have driven into that lady's house

Only proves that he's insane

hmmm.. your may be wrong, for all i know, you may be right.

JUburton wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:I think country music, at least good country music, is close to dead. Nashville has that stuff on lockdown and it's really hard to break into that scene without nashville being behind you. As the old timers die off, we're mostly stuck with the garth brooks of the music world.

But there are always new kinds of music popping up and I love just going link to link on youtube finding new stuff or old stuff that was buried until the internet opened things up. New music is not dead.

Try (though you've likely heard of some/all) Sturgill Simpson, Jason Isbell (less so the last album), Drive-by Truckers, Tyler Childers, Chris Stapleton, Kacey Musgraves.

A little poppier, Maren Morris,

that's a hell of a list. Sturgill and Stapleton have been revelations the past few years

Barry Jive wrote:

JUburton wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:I think country music, at least good country music, is close to dead. Nashville has that stuff on lockdown and it's really hard to break into that scene without nashville being behind you. As the old timers die off, we're mostly stuck with the garth brooks of the music world.

But there are always new kinds of music popping up and I love just going link to link on youtube finding new stuff or old stuff that was buried until the internet opened things up. New music is not dead.

Try (though you've likely heard of some/all) Sturgill Simpson, Jason Isbell (less so the last album), Drive-by Truckers, Tyler Childers, Chris Stapleton, Kacey Musgraves.

A little poppier, Maren Morris,

that's a hell of a list. Sturgill and Stapleton have been revelations the past few years

I'll check them out.

I've been fucking obsessed with Tyler Childers