Roy Halladay

by **jamiethekiller** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 17:42:03

don't we all agree that the halladay trade was un-necessary without keeping lee?

by **Houshphandzadeh** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 17:43:36

jamiethekiller wrote:don't we all agree that the halladay trade was un-necessary without keeping lee?

Not really. I think we could have done better with the whole sequence of events, but having Roy for 4/5 years as opposed to Lee makes me happy. I'm in the majority, I believe.

by **Trent Steele** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 17:47:27

Houshphandzadeh wrote:
jamiethekiller wrote:don't we all agree that the halladay trade was un-necessary without keeping lee?

Not really. I think we could have done better with the whole sequence of events, but having Roy for 4/5 years as opposed to Lee makes me happy. I'm in the majority, I believe.

Halladay is the pitching equivalent of Chase Utley.

by **philliesphhan** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 17:49:13

Trent Steele wrote:
Houshphandzadeh wrote:
jamiethekiller wrote:don't we all agree that the halladay trade was un-necessary without keeping lee?

Not really. I think we could have done better with the whole sequence of events, but having Roy for 4/5 years as opposed to Lee makes me happy. I'm in the majority, I believe.

Halladay is the pitching equivalent of Chase Utley.

Indeed. It actually kind of amazes me that some people think Halladay = Lee

by **Benny Lava** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 17:56:49

Remember a few years back when Bush was president, and someone asked him if he was going to start a baseball team what two players would he want to start the roster? He answered Utley and Halladay. And we got both of those guys! Four more years!

by **jamiethekiller** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 18:00:31

philliesphhan wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:
Houshphandzadeh wrote:
jamiethekiller wrote:don't we all agree that the halladay trade was un-necessary without keeping lee?

Not really. I think we could have done better with the whole sequence of events, but having Roy for 4/5 years as opposed to Lee makes me happy. I'm in the majority, I believe.

Halladay is the pitching equivalent of Chase Utley.

Indeed. It actually kind of amazes me that some people think Halladay = Lee

no, i know how amazing halladay is. but i'm afraid this 'window' really only lasts for 2010. they can't raise payroll anymore. and blanton/moyer will be gone with no replacements in the minors ready. so its going to be terrible starts for 4/5. don't forget the crash to reality that Happ is headed to.

its that we needed taylor and drabek to still have a shot past 2010. halladay/hamels is not a world series lock to me. or even a post season lock to me. THIS was the year to go ALL IN.

by **CalvinBall** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 18:03:24

you are forgetting when they leave they also give us 15 million to work with.

by **stevemc** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 18:06:15

jamiethekiller wrote:no, i know how amazing halladay is. but i'm afraid this 'window' really only lasts for 2010. they can't raise payroll anymore. and blanton/moyer will be gone with no replacements in the minors ready. so its going to be terrible starts for 4/5. don't forget the crash to reality that Happ is headed to.

its that we needed taylor and drabek to still have a shot past 2010. halladay/hamels is not a world series lock to me. or even a post season lock to me. THIS was the year to go ALL IN.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A[/youtube]

by **FTN** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 18:12:50

http://www.metsrefugees.com/forum/showt ... hp?t=25104

and you know theyd argue Pelf can be just as good as Halladay

by **jamiethekiller** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 18:15:51

CalvinBall wrote:you are forgetting when they leave they also give us 15 million to work with.

they have 125 million tied up WITHOUT having a starting OF, 2 starting P, and 4 RP.

i can't see the 140 million rising much more than that. so they have say 25 million to get two competent starters, a starting OF(hopefully brown?), and 4 RP.

thats tough

by **kimbatiste** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 18:21:50

jamiethekiller wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:you are forgetting when they leave they also give us 15 million to work with.

they have 125 million tied up WITHOUT having a starting OF, 2 starting P, and 4 RP.

i can't see the 140 million rising much more than that. so they have say 25 million to get two competent starters, a starting OF(hopefully brown?), and 4 RP.

thats tough

Not if one of the starting pitchers comes from the system along with Brown. You should have no problem getting 1 SP and 2 RP for $25 million. The other two relievers are probably going to be AAAA fungible quality anyone.

by **nycphils** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 18:29:26

Jaime, I don't think you are far off - that's why the success of this team AFTER 2010 depends in significant part on 3 things: (1) Dom Brown has to be all that, (2) Kendrick (the only close to the bigs SP in the org that has a chance to be more than very mediocre, not saying it will happen) getting back to being a decent 4/5 starter and (3) finding a replacement for Rollins (who I think is in decline, though I hope I'm wrong).

I think the bullpen - Bastardo, Mathieson, Rosenberg, Aumont, others - will work itself out.

by **nycphils** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 18:30:48

jamiethekiller wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:you are forgetting when they leave they also give us 15 million to work with.

they have 125 million tied up WITHOUT having a starting OF, 2 starting P, and 4 RP.

i can't see the 140 million rising much more than that. so they have say 25 million to get two competent starters, a starting OF(hopefully brown?), and 4 RP.

thats tough

What this also says is that Werth is a gonner.

by **lethal** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 18:54:24

nycphils wrote:
jamiethekiller wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:you are forgetting when they leave they also give us 15 million to work with.

they have 125 million tied up WITHOUT having a starting OF, 2 starting P, and 4 RP.

i can't see the 140 million rising much more than that. so they have say 25 million to get two competent starters, a starting OF(hopefully brown?), and 4 RP.

thats tough

What this also says is that Werth is a gonner.

If you can fill the other spots internally for cheap, you can give Werth most of that money and have Brown replace Victorino or Ibanez in 2012.

by **GodOfWar** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 19:00:40

What do people see as Francisco's potential if he started? I still think they move Victorino to try to keep Werth after next season. If not I almost guarantee Jayson ends up in Boston for 2011.

by **jamiethekiller** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 19:08:17

kimbatiste wrote:
jamiethekiller wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:you are forgetting when they leave they also give us 15 million to work with.

they have 125 million tied up WITHOUT having a starting OF, 2 starting P, and 4 RP.

i can't see the 140 million rising much more than that. so they have say 25 million to get two competent starters, a starting OF(hopefully brown?), and 4 RP.

thats tough

Not if one of the starting pitchers comes from the system along with Brown. You should have no problem getting 1 SP and 2 RP for $25 million. The other two relievers are probably going to be AAAA fungible quality anyone.

who is going to come from our system? we don't have a solid prospect above A ball. We just have a lot of projection high ceiling arms. as another noted, its kendrick or bust from our system right now.

this is why this trade stinks. we just lost all ability to control our costs. we can't trade an OF at this point because we won't have a replacement. we have zero position of strength now.

by **kimbatiste** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 19:13:29

jamiethekiller wrote:
kimbatiste wrote:
jamiethekiller wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:you are forgetting when they leave they also give us 15 million to work with.

they have 125 million tied up WITHOUT having a starting OF, 2 starting P, and 4 RP.

i can't see the 140 million rising much more than that. so they have say 25 million to get two competent starters, a starting OF(hopefully brown?), and 4 RP.

thats tough

Not if one of the starting pitchers comes from the system along with Brown. You should have no problem getting 1 SP and 2 RP for $25 million. The other two relievers are probably going to be AAAA fungible quality anyone.

who is going to come from our system? we don't have a solid prospect above A ball. We just have a lot of projection high ceiling arms. as another noted, its kendrick or bust from our system right now.

this is why this trade stinks. we just lost all ability to control our costs. we can't trade an OF at this point because we won't have a replacement. we have zero position of strength now.

Between AA/AAA we have Kendrick, Carpenter, Worley, Stutes, Aumont, Ramirez, Bastardo, Flande, and Naylor. Would I bet on any of those guys individually? Probably not. But I wouldn't be shocked if one of them was capable of being a league average pitcher (or at least a serviceable #5) by 2011.

by **kimbatiste** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 19:17:52

I should also add that we can only plan for and worry about 2011 so much. A year ago today, I doubt anyone would have predicted that we would have trading for Roy Halladay and certainly not that we would be trading Cliff Lee in the interim.

A year from now both Gose and Gillies could look like elite yet redundant prospects and one could be trading for a young, cheap, and controllable starting pitcher. He seems silly to be concerned that we don't have a good viable fifth starter for 2011 at the present considering we don't even know who the fifth starter will be in March.

by **GodOfWar** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 19:29:10

I'm actually really interested in what they do in future off seasons. I'm just gonna concentrate on 40 possible starts (including postseason) for Halladay in 2010 for now. My head is still spinning from the last few days.

I'm going to miss not seeing Taylor or Drabek at Coca Cola Park next year. That's baseball though.

by **CalvinBall** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 19:35:47

we got rid of drabek and taylor and now we cant control costs? it wasnt a guarantee that they were going to be good.

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