FTN wrote:Hmmm.

But here's the thing. If his list is limited to teams that have ST in Florida, then his list is essentially the Phillies and Red Sox.

thats kinda how it seems, right?

maybe tampa bay, too.

but if JPR is to much of a prick to trade him at all, then it doesn't matter where halladay wants to go

FTN wrote:Hmmm.

But here's the thing. If his list is limited to teams that have ST in Florida, then his list is essentially the Phillies and Red Sox.

Temas with Fla sping training:

Atlanta Braves
Baltimore Orioles
Boston Red Sox
Cincinnati Reds
Detroit Tigers
Florida Marlins
Houston Astros
Minnesota Twins
New York Mets
New York Yankees
Philadelphia Phillies
Pittsburgh Pirates
St. Louis Cardinals
Tampa Bay Rays
Toronto Blue Jays
Washington Nationals


Yep. Pretty much. He lives in Dunedin.

ashton wrote:

kopphanatic wrote:Probably a dumb question, but if the Phillies know he wants to come here, why are they stalling?

Do you mean why are the Blue Jays stalling in accepting whatever the Phillies will give them?

No, I meant the Phillies, but I understand now that, if this rumor is true, the Phils would use it as leverage

So based on his desire to win, its Phillies, Red Sox or Yankees. Rays dont have the money to afford him.

The question is, does JP like our offer (Happ, Taylor, Carrasco, Donald) more than what he'll realistically get from Boston or New York. He's said they have to pay a premium to get him, which they don't appear inclined to do. So do you take our offer, or a similar offer from your division rival?

I was thinking earlier today that the Phillies are playing it like they know that Halladay will only approve a trade to them, Boston, or New York (Yankees), and that the Blue Jays 1) need to trade Halladay and 2) are desperate not to trade him to Boston or New York. Why else would there be a "heated" exchange between the two teams? It's because Riccardi knows he has to trade Halladay, knows the only trade partner that won't result in his being lynched is trying to squeeze him, and he is therefore experiencing the anger born of desperation that a cornered animal feels. This shouldn't be happening to him, etc.

Why else would Riccardi be mad? It's got to be him that started the anger, because why would the Phillies be mad? They are in first, are sitting on a ton of talent for the future, and are the defending WFCs.

Riccardi is feeling the pressure, not the Phils. And the Rube is giving him the old Egyptian rat screw. Love it.

happ/taylor/carrasco/donald

is a way better haul that he would have ever gotten from two first round picks. first round picks hope to have minor league careers like our 4 players have had and 3 of them plan to be average to above average major leaguers.

what a douche

Trent Steele wrote:

FTN wrote:Hmmm.

But here's the thing. If his list is limited to teams that have ST in Florida, then his list is essentially the Phillies and Red Sox.

Temas with Fla sping training:

Atlanta Braves
Baltimore Orioles
Boston Red Sox
Cincinnati Reds
Detroit Tigers
Florida Marlins
Houston Astros
Minnesota Twins
New York Mets
New York Yankees
Philadelphia Phillies
Pittsburgh Pirates
St. Louis Cardinals
Tampa Bay Rays
Toronto Blue Jays
Washington Nationals


Yep. Pretty much. He lives in Dunedin.

Exact same thought I had in to work this morning: the Phillies are the only ones Halladay will approve aside from the Red Sox and Yankees, and the Phillies know it.

he plays the game the right way

FTN wrote:

the balls in YOUR COURT

Rube's been lowballing all along. The longer this takes to get done, the more it favors the Phillies.

Because it isn't just about getting Halladay. It's about getting Halladay as cheaply as possible. Maybe it will be the reverse of the Abreu deal. Remember that?

FTN wrote:So based on his desire to win, its Phillies, Red Sox or Yankees. Rays dont have the money to afford him.

The question is, does JP like our offer (Happ, Taylor, Carrasco, Donald) more than what he'll realistically get from Boston or New York. He's said they have to pay a premium to get him, which they don't appear inclined to do. So do you take our offer, or a similar offer from your division rival?

I doubt it's that simple. Halladay could easily change his mind about the Spring Training thing, especially if it was the difference between being stuck on the Jays and playing for a contender. Curt Schilling said the Phils were at the top of his list, but once Arizona told him the Phils weren't serious about making a deal, he allowed himself to be talked into the idea of pitching in Boston by Epstein and Luccino.

Amaro has not given me a reason to doubt him, so I won't drag him over th coals over an ESPN report.

TenuredVulture wrote:Rube's been lowballing all along. The longer this takes to get done, the more it favors the Phillies.

Because it isn't just about getting Halladay. It's about getting Halladay as cheaply as possible. Maybe it will be the reverse of the Abreu deal. Remember that?

It's not lowballing. It's just given yourself room to negotiate. The opening offer was reasonable.

The unfortunate thing, from my perspective, is that Drabek + Happ + Brown for Hallladay is still a fair deal (all things considered) and is a deal that we should do. If we take that deal now, should it still be there, it hurts Rube in future negotiations because it showed he caved. Thats the one negative of these very public, high profile deals

Werthless wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:Rube's been lowballing all along. The longer this takes to get done, the more it favors the Phillies.

Because it isn't just about getting Halladay. It's about getting Halladay as cheaply as possible. Maybe it will be the reverse of the Abreu deal. Remember that?

It's not lowballing. It's just given yourself room to negotiate. The opening offer was reasonable.

I meant lowballing in a good way. Part of this is based on my impression of Rube's personality. Someone as competitive and arrogant as Amaro won't be satisfied just getting Halladay, he wants this to be a clear victory for him and his negotiating skills.

I'll bet jpr has known all along that Philly was the only place Doc pre-approved and his bluster has been inversely proportional to his leverage. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Doc essentially requested a trade to Philly. I'll also bet he got Doc to keep it on the low down, but that the Phils found out thru their Toronto underground, which is why they're playing hardball.

I was at this game, one of Rube's last good moments as a MLB player. It was my first trip to Shea.

I believe!

What if the work out a deal then Halladay vetoes a trade here? Would that be the most epic thing ever?

Werthless wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:Rube's been lowballing all along. The longer this takes to get done, the more it favors the Phillies.

Because it isn't just about getting Halladay. It's about getting Halladay as cheaply as possible. Maybe it will be the reverse of the Abreu deal. Remember that?

It's not lowballing. It's just given yourself room to negotiate. The opening offer was reasonable.

Absolutely agree; all we know now is what Toronto's best case is (Drabek/Happ/Brown) and what the Phillies best case is (Happ/Taylor/Donald/Carrasco). Toronto has now made five requests, which you can assume are all their best case scenarios and all five were rejected. They simply are not going to get their best case scenarios; it is as simple as that. Further, I don't think that any of the teams involved will decide to cave at the last second so the pressure is really on JP to come down a little.